Dr. Zakir Naik - good or what?

That had to be the most painfully long explanation of the rules i've ever seen. Interesting debate but as usual it seems the Christian speaker chosen is an evangelist - whose doctrine regarding the Bible is that the Bible is factually accurate, and the direct word of God. Unfortunately this is not representative of the majority of Christians who do not subscribe to this doctrine, it is rejected by Catholics and almost all reformed Protestants.

Consequently his thoughts on things like the great flood do not represent the interpretations of most Christian scholars that believe the region (and not the world) was flooded, and the dimensions of this flood are factually accounted for by Geologists - not biased writers from the time.

The Bible is the compilation of people's experiences with God - a specific people in a specific area. They are witnessing these things and often embellish or mismanage their facts, then they explain what happened in light of the revelation of God through the prophets sent to them.

This is why the Bible cannot be considered a book of facts - and is not by most Christian denominations.

Evangelists in the last 150 years have argued otherwise, however they are a new group and not the majority.

Dave what denomination do you follow, don't think i ever asked you?

Got nowt against Dr Zakir Naik, but i'm no fan, don't accept some of the beliefs he holds about Islam.

[quote="yashmaki"]Dave what denomination do you follow, don't think i ever asked you?

Got nowt against Dr Zakir Naik, but i'm no fan, don't accept some of the beliefs he holds about Islam.[/quote]

I thought he was kinda interesting... my problem was more with Campbell.

I'm Presbyterian, it's reformed Protestant which means it's a Protestant Church founded during and from the Reformation rather than outside it like the C o E or several hundred years later like the Evangelists.

Figures like John Calvin, Martin Luther and John Knox play more important roles in reform theology.

On a scale of Conservative to Liberal Christian I am fast becomming more Liberal - however I was Conservative for quite some time.

This isn't the same as being politically in one direction or another - mostly it deals with issues like the relevance of Doctrine and how we direct the Christian mission.

mmmaaannnnn that starting instructions are ssssoooooooo longg. Is that how its done at all such functions??

Ive always thought Dr Naik has always presented a good logical arguement which is why ive always liked his answers... altho some beliefs he's put forward... ive not been completely comfortable with.

The other thing about him is he REALLY seems to know his stuff aswell as knowledge of other holy scriptures in good detail e.g. bible.

Was this conference in America?? The kid seemed to hav an American accent.

[quote="Seraphim"]mmmaaannnnn that starting instructions are ssssoooooooo longg. Is that how its done at all such functions??

Ive always thought Dr Naik has always presented a good logical arguement which is why ive always liked his answers... altho some beliefs he's put forward... ive not been completely comfortable with.

Was this conference in America?? The kid seemed to hav an American accent.[/quote]

I noticed that too - you mean the kid with the God = Halogen lightbulb question right?

[quote="Augustus"][quote="Seraphim"]mmmaaannnnn that starting instructions are ssssoooooooo longg. Is that how its done at all such functions??

Ive always thought Dr Naik has always presented a good logical arguement which is why ive always liked his answers... altho some beliefs he's put forward... ive not been completely comfortable with.

Was this conference in America?? The kid seemed to hav an American accent.[/quote]

I noticed that too - you mean the kid with the God = Halogen lightbulb question right?[/quote]

im still watching/listening to it... infact all the public who're asking questions have American accents... so im pretty sure it is in America.

I'll say one thing about Dr Cambell he was very brave to do this conference.

Even though he brought a number of books with him to quote from.

Eh - don't take his theology seriously.

Common sense disproves evangelist nonsense about the factual infallibity of the bible.

dr Naik has much knowledge to little affect
or he has much knowledge but little wisdom

he's a very good speaker and i could listen to him all day but when asked specific and integral questions about deen he folds

Hi Seema

[quote="seema*"]he's a very good speaker and i could listen to him all day but when asked specific and integral questions about deen he folds[/quote]wot kind of 'integral questions'? his speciality is comparitive religion, so if someone asks him a question outside of his field, he cant be expected to give a 100% correct answer...

Where did he study?

[quote="Augustus"]Where did he study?[/quote]In Bombay - he's actually a doctor by profession, i dont think he went back to uni for a degree in comparative religion (unlike the similarly renowned Shabir Ally of Canada) but he studied under Ahmed Deedat, dunno if uv heard of him?

[quote="*DUST*"][quote="Augustus"]Where did he study?[/quote]In Bombay - he's actually a doctor by profession, i dont think he went back to uni for a degree in comparative religion (unlike the similarly renowned Shabir Ally of Canada) but he studied under Ahmed Deedat, dunno if uv heard of him?[/quote]

Ahmed Deedat - but not Shabir Ally.

So his specialty is Comparative Religion - this is not to say he actually holds any formal accredation/education to that effect correct?

[quote="Augustus"]So his specialty is Comparative Religion - this is not to say he actually holds any formal accredation/education to that effect correct?[/quote]as far as i know, yes.

[quote="*DUST*"][quote="seema*"]he's a very good speaker and i could listen to him all day but when asked specific and integral questions about deen he folds[/quote]wot kind of 'integral questions'? his speciality is comparitive religion, so if someone asks him a question outside of his field, he cant be expected to give a 100% correct answer...[/quote]

you know the 4 madhabs in Islam he says you can chop and change that finished his credibility for me but still as i said in comparative religions he's unstoppable and very capable

hi Augustus

I find these talks about Islam and science quite interesting.

http://www.masud.co.uk/Audio/coherence_of_islam_1.mp3
http://www.masud.co.uk/Audio/coherence_of_islam_2.mp3
http://www.masud.co.uk/Audio/coherence_of_islam_3.mp3
http://www.masud.co.uk/Audio/coherence_of_islam_4.mp3
http://www.masud.co.uk/Audio/coherence_of_islam_5.mp3
http://www.masud.co.uk/Audio/coherence_of_islam_6.mp3

[quote="*DUST*"][quote="Augustus"]So his specialty is Comparative Religion - this is not to say he actually holds any formal accredation/education to that effect correct?[/quote]as far as i know, yes.[/quote]

I see... what is it about him that people seem to like so much, he is one of the top recommended scholars to me by muslims who think they can convert me.

How have you been Seema - it's been a while!

well dont wont to push my luck

[quote="seema*"]you know the 4 madhabs in Islam he says you can chop and change that finished his credibility for me[/quote]i know, i heard of this previously from some forumites, we had a discussion bout it a while back... but thats my point - i dont see y people should ask him questions relating to madhabs because he is not in a (scholarly) position to answer those questions. if he said those things without being asked, i'd say thats pretty irresponsible...

lalalala

laaaa
lala la la la la

[quote="*DUST*"][quote="seema*"]you know the 4 madhabs in Islam he says you can chop and change that finished his credibility for me[/quote]i know, i heard of this previously from some forumites, we had a discussion bout it a while back... but thats my point - i dont see y people should ask him questions relating to madhabs because he is not in a (scholarly) position to answer those questions. if he said those things without being asked, i'd say thats pretty irresponsible...[/quote]

yes in that case he indeed is an amazing speaker gifted even

[quote="Augustus"]I see... what is it about him that people seem to like so much, he is one of the top recommended scholars to me by muslims who think they can convert me.[/quote]funnily enough he is not a 'scholar' - as i said he's just a very conscientious muslim whose gone out of his way to memorise loadsa religious texts and he's now the top Muslim speaker when it comes to comparitive religion today...

[deleted)

lol [i]you're[/i] too quick... I just deleted it 😂

....let's just pretend nothing happened

[quote="*DUST*"][quote="Augustus"]I see... what is it about him that people seem to like so much, he is one of the top recommended scholars to me by muslims who think they can convert me.[/quote]funnily enough he is not a 'scholar' - as i said he's just a very conscientious muslim whose gone out of his way to memorise loadsa religious texts and he's now the top Muslim speaker when it comes to comparitive religion today...[/quote]

[i]memorise[/i]

Wow

[quote="*DUST*"] if he said those things without being asked, i'd say thats pretty irresponsible...[/quote]

Manchester Unity conference.

His talk was why are muslims not united. His answer was madhabs. ('The Prophet ﷺ did not follow a madhab' as someone paraphrased afterwards...)

[quote="Admin"][quote="*DUST*"] if he said those things without being asked, i'd say thats pretty irresponsible...[/quote]

Manchester Unity conference.

His talk was why are muslims not united. His answer was madhabs. ('The Prophet ﷺ did not follow a madhab' as someone paraphrased afterwards...)[/quote]
hmm yeh, i thought i remembered that^ being mentioned, so the above quote was in reference to it...

[quote]Interesting debate but as usual it seems the Christian speaker chosen is an evangelist - whose doctrine regarding the Bible is that the Bible is factually accurate, and the direct word of God.[/quote]

ok mate. he hasnt just done 1 debate he does loads. daily basis like.. so bring on any 1 and i think he has never lost any debate so far. he grew up and admired the way Ahmed Deedat did his work

to see his [b]video'(s)'[/b] [url]http://www.freewebs.com/zikr/deedat.html[/url]

peace

Honestly these names aren't impressing me especially swaggart who is a total looney.

He had a sermon last year about killing all the gays.

The people Deedat and Zakir debate don't represent mainstream Christianity instead they represent a fringe sect of Christianity - evangelism, which places little interest in Christian scholarship and has resulted in some bizzarre doctrines and theologies.

That's why it's not terribly surprising that they end up looking like idiots - or in the case of "Yusuf" Estes, convert. They never really knew what Christianity was to begin with.

I get the feeling that Deedat and Zakir themselves aren't exactly scholarly, which Dust certainly confirmed in the case of Zakir.