Muslim teacher suspended for wearing veil

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Muslim teacher defends her veil

A Muslim support teacher suspended for wearing a veil in class says it was never a problem for her pupils.

Headfield Church of England Junior School, in Dewsbury, West Yorkshire, said pupils found it hard to understand her during English language lessons.

But Aishah Azmi, 24, said: "They never complained." She added she was willing to take the veil off in class, but not in front of any male colleagues.

London Mayor Ken Livingstone said he would like Muslims to give up the veil.

'Unacceptable' request

But he suggested change was not something that could be imposed from outside the Muslim community.

He said: ""People have fought for centuries to establish freedom of religion and culture.

"It is the choice of each individual what they believe and what they wear. It is unacceptable for any politician to ask a woman coming to seek help to take off a Muslim veil or any other item of religious clothing."

Mr Livingstone said any change would happen from within, and that it was important to engage with "the progressive elements and leaders in the Muslim community".

Ms Azmi was suspended pending the outcome of an employment tribunal, which is due to announce its decision within the next two weeks.

Kirklees Council said she was asked to take off her veil in class and refused, but the action was "nothing to do with religion", only a practical matter about making herself understood.

But Ms Azmi told Today: "It hasn't caused a problem between myself and the children. They've never complained and we had a brilliant relationship."

She added: "To say the students have a problem with communication, that's not right."

Disputing the school's version of events, she insisted she had always been willing to take off her veil in front of the children but would not in front of male colleagues.

'Koran instruction'

She had been instructed to take it off throughout the school day, she said.

"The veil is really important to all Muslim women who choose to wear it. Our religion compels us to wear it because it's in the Koran."

The school, which has 529 pupils aged seven to 11, takes many children from different ethnic backgrounds where English is not the first language.

The Leader of the Commons, Jack Straw, first raised the issue last week when he suggested the full veil over the face separated communities.

About 60 demonstrators gathered outside his morning surgery at Bangor Street Community Centre in Blackburn on Saturday.

A larger demonstration had been planned but was abandoned because of safety concerns.

A survey in the Guardian newspaper suggests 53% of people support Mr Straw in thinking the veils create a barrier between Muslims and other people.

But three-quarters opposed a ban on veils being worn outside the home.

BBC News

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82 comments

stmark Sun, 15 Oct 2006 - 03:07

*DUST*

Noor...*
*DUST*
Noor...*Intresting interview by the sister, cleared up a few misconceptions however, i dnt agree with the last part of the interview.

which part was that? her belief in it being fardh?

Yeah.

same here, but there are differences of opinion on this and many other parts of our faith, doesn't mean we can't all get along - as you said we just have to learn to respect eachothers' opinion, agree to disagree and all that. 🙂

st. mark can you stick to the topic please, or open a new thread for what you want to discuss.

I thought I was on topic. He asked me why they didn't say anything before now and I answered and mentioned a multicultural society. Then gave some examples of what would have to change ie the headhunting and the voodoo dolls. I was just answering that guys question.

yashmaki Sun, 15 Oct 2006 - 13:55

Saima you have a right to your view but you're blatantly looking down upon the niqab and those who choose to wear it what ever happened to respect?

I'm sure you're aware that our prophets' ﷺ wives used to wear the niqab and so did many other early women in Islam. Our prophet ﷺ never advised against it nor did he say it was exclusively for his wives to practise. So it's open to question how it's interpreted and applied.

Bearing this in mind in one of your latter posts you claimed you wanted to promote the "good" side of Islam to ppl, so on implication you're saying the niqab reflects the "bad side"? Considering our prophets wives wore it and other sahabiyah (ra), how can you say it's the bad side of Islam?

It's one thing to not accept it but to make comments like that is darn right offensive to me. It sounds like you're ashamed of the niqab and those that wear it.

I'm not thrilled about the concept of polygamy but i would never shove the concept under the carpet just to please non muslims. Like it or not it is a part of Islam and so is the niqab.

Certain scholars have said it's not advisable to wear it in the west coz of how it's misinterpreted and how women could be open to abuse from non muslims. But these same scholars have also said it's up to the woman, if she feels strong enough to wear it and put up with the abuse then she may do so, and it's a virtuous act. I agree with this point of view entirely. Unfortunately it's primarily abuse from "muslims" i have to put up with not non muslims.

Exquisite Sun, 15 Oct 2006 - 13:59

sis, if you wear the niqab well done to you im so proud of you and im 100% totally behind you.

and Stmark stop comparing the niqab to the kkk and nazis you cant make a comparison like that

Exquisite Sun, 15 Oct 2006 - 14:07

stmark

Exquisitedont strt name calling, if she wants to waer the niqaab she should have been allowed to

Not when she's teachung but it's not just happening to muslims. http://uk.news.yahoo.com/14102006/140/ba-bans-worker-wearing-cross.html
British Airways has banned a Christian woman from wearing a cross on a necklace to work. Heathrow check-in worker Nadia Eweida was sent home after refusing to remove the crucifix, which breached BA's dress code. The Daily Mail said Miss Eweida is suing her employer for religious discrimination after being suspended from work without pay for two weeks.

The move has been criticised by Christian groups and Miss Eweida's MP Vince Cable.

Miss Eweida told the paper: "I will not hide my belief

in the Lord Jesus. British Airways permits Muslims to wear a headscarf, Sikhs to wear a turban and other faiths religious apparel.

"Only Christians are forbidden to express their faith. I am a loyal and conscientious employee of British Airways, but I stand up for the rights of all citizens."

Mr Cable told Sky News that he found BA's position "incomprehensible".

"We are not questioning the policy of exempting other religion faiths," he said.

"We can't understand why they are coming down so heavily on someone who wants to advertise their religious faith. She did it in a very modest way."

The Mail says the 55-year-old from Twickenham was ordered to remove her cross or hide it beneath a company cravat by a duty manager at Heathrow's Terminal 4 last month.

She then sought permission from management to wear the chain - but was turned down.

A British Airways spokeswoman said: "British Airways does recognise that uniformed employees may wish to wear jewellery including religious symbols.

"Our uniform policy states that these items can be worn underneath their uniform. There is no ban.

"This rule applies for all jewellery and religious symbols on chains and is not specific to the cross."

Her case is being supported by her union, the TGWU, and a petition of support has been signed by more than 200 fellow workers


add me to the list of those supporting her and im totally behind her, she should stand up for her right, i dont cre if the person was muslim or non-muslim they have the right to wear wht they want

peacegirl Sun, 15 Oct 2006 - 22:50

I AM NOT AGAINST THE NIQAAB. Why can't WE all work together to promote islam??? maybe by doing that we can show the non muslim that the niqaab is good and part of the religion? Nobody is gonna get used to it this way!

Believe me I never dis the niqaab to non muslim...........and I do have a chat about my religion to lots of non muslims. I've invited them to iftaaris, and many are coming to the eid party. When I speak to them I explain our ways..........not walk past and then come on a forum to say "a woman walked past and said the niqaab is creepy." I'm not reaching everone everywhere but I least I'm trying!

I like the fact yashimiki showed her face to that child!! I'm sure he/she isn't gonna be afraid!

stmark Sun, 15 Oct 2006 - 22:50

[quote="yashmaki"]Saima you have a right to your view but you're blatantly looking down upon the niqab and those who choose to wear it what ever happened to respect?[/quote I just don't think she should wear it when she is teaching. That was a church of england school and the kids were complaining about not being able to understand her.

stmark Sun, 15 Oct 2006 - 22:59

Exquisitesis, if you wear the niqab well done to you im so proud of you and im 100% totally behind you.

and Stmark stop comparing the niqab to the kkk and nazis you cant make a comparison like that

I was comparing his reasoning, it's a scary outfit and to a lot of brits the niqaab is to.

peacegirl Sun, 15 Oct 2006 - 23:02

stmark

Exquisitesis, if you wear the niqab well done to you im so proud of you and im 100% totally behind you.

and Stmark stop comparing the niqab to the kkk and nazis you cant make a comparison like that

I was comparing his reasoning, it's a scary outfit and to a lot of brits the niqaab is to.

Exactly my point! Nothing wrong with it in our eyes, but it is to many others! they don't even know much about it. WOT TO DO? WOT TO DO? spread the word!! Talk to as many non muslims, and let them know........coz THE SUN or any other press aren't going to speak up for us!

*DUST* Mon, 16 Oct 2006 - 02:00

stmarkI thought I was on topic. He asked me why they didn't say anything before now and I answered and mentioned a multicultural society. Then gave some examples of what would have to change ie the headhunting and the voodoo dolls. I was just answering that guys question.

exquisite is a 'she'.

Noor Mon, 16 Oct 2006 - 02:04

*DUST*

stmarkI thought I was on topic. He asked me why they didn't say anything before now and I answered and mentioned a multicultural society. Then gave some examples of what would have to change ie the headhunting and the voodoo dolls. I was just answering that guys question.

exquisite is a 'she'.

I tought the Pink flower and text would have given it away..

:roll:

Dave Mon, 16 Oct 2006 - 02:05

Noor...*

*DUST*
stmarkI thought I was on topic. He asked me why they didn't say anything before now and I answered and mentioned a multicultural society. Then gave some examples of what would have to change ie the headhunting and the voodoo dolls. I was just answering that guys question.

exquisite is a 'she'.

I tought the Pink flower and text would have given it away..

:roll:

maybe he thought you were just a very effeminate male?

...with a girls name...

and purple text

*DUST* Mon, 16 Oct 2006 - 02:12

saima786When I speak to them I explain our ways..........not walk past and then come on a forum to say "a woman walked past and said the niqaab is creepy." I'm not reaching everone everywhere but I least I'm trying!

forgive me for not trying as hard as you. :roll: its easy for you to say that if you've never worn niqaab before. most times you're too surprised to react when such things happen. you reflect on what you could or should have said when the moment has passed. anyway what did you expect me to do, go up to the woman and ask 'excuse me, do you have a problem with what i'm wearing?' - its useless going on the offensive, if someone asks me a question regarding the hijab, jilbab, niqaab or whatever out of their own curiosity i'd be happy to answer but i'm not going to raise the topic with every other non-muslim i meet. the way i see it there are more important issues to discuss.
besides, the vast majority of people who have an issue with niqaab are still tolerant enough to speak politely as opposed to resorting to insults. in my opinion these people are the only ones worth having a discussion with.

Noor Mon, 16 Oct 2006 - 02:13

Odysseus

Noor...*
*DUST*
stmarkI thought I was on topic. He asked me why they didn't say anything before now and I answered and mentioned a multicultural society. Then gave some examples of what would have to change ie the headhunting and the voodoo dolls. I was just answering that guys question.

exquisite is a 'she'.

I tought the Pink flower and text would have given it away..

:roll:

maybe he thought you were just a very effeminate male?

...with a girls name...

and purple text

I doubt it very much and besides we are talking about Exquisite here!

Dave Mon, 16 Oct 2006 - 02:16

Noor...*

Odysseus
Noor...*
*DUST*
stmarkI thought I was on topic. He asked me why they didn't say anything before now and I answered and mentioned a multicultural society. Then gave some examples of what would have to change ie the headhunting and the voodoo dolls. I was just answering that guys question.

exquisite is a 'she'.

I tought the Pink flower and text would have given it away..

:roll:

maybe he thought you were just a very effeminate male?

...with a girls name...

and purple text

I doubt it very much and besides we are talking about Exquisite here!

oh... right...

good point...

peacegirl Mon, 16 Oct 2006 - 11:26

*DUST*

saima786When I speak to them I explain our ways..........not walk past and then come on a forum to say "a woman walked past and said the niqaab is creepy." I'm not reaching everone everywhere but I least I'm trying!

forgive me for not trying as hard as you. :roll: its easy for you to say that if you've never worn niqaab before. most times you're too surprised to react when such things happen. you reflect on what you could or should have said when the moment has passed. anyway what did you expect me to do, go up to the woman and ask 'excuse me, do you have a problem with what i'm wearing?' - its useless going on the offensive, if someone asks me a question regarding the hijab, jilbab, niqaab or whatever out of their own curiosity i'd be happy to answer but i'm not going to raise the topic with every other non-muslim i meet. the way i see it there are more important issues to discuss.
besides, the vast majority of people who have an issue with niqaab are still tolerant enough to speak politely as opposed to resorting to insults. in my opinion these people are the only ones worth having a discussion with.

I'm covered up all the time!!! just my face shows.........I also get looks now and then.......but I do make conversation with people.........if I even feel someone is looking and I get the chance I do make conversation....and EVERYTIME.... people DO start getting all chatty!! OH AND............I don't go around explaining why I dress like I do! Most of the time I don't have to! Just talking about my faith and letting a non muslim know something that they never knew is great!

Please do make conversation with the polite ones!!! It will make a difference ONE day if we all try!! Holding protests is fine but we can achieve a lot more if we all just spread or word to individuals!

Angel Mon, 16 Oct 2006 - 16:53

lol

It would be interesting to know the views of people if god forbid there was a ban on hijab.

I think it's crazy for ppl to judge others when they themselves are not in that situation, for some sisters that wear the niqab they feel it is a must hence it is part of their modesty.

It's easy for non-muslims to judge or muslims who don't agree with this view of niqab as they don't face themselves with this situation and don't have the appropriate knowledge of why some sisters feel they must do the niqab. It all boils down to respecting others wishes. Straw's points regarding communication and I keep saying this are stupid to say the least esp. what with society advancing so much and communicating over phone and internet. If he had a valid point I might have been able to absorb his views in a more calmer manner.

Exquisite Mon, 16 Oct 2006 - 18:56

stmark

Exquisitesis, if you wear the niqab well done to you im so proud of you and im 100% totally behind you.

and Stmark stop comparing the niqab to the kkk and nazis you cant make a comparison like that

I was comparing his reasoning, it's a scary outfit and to a lot of brits the niqaab is to.

in future reference please refer to me as a she or if not just call me Exquisite 🙂

if people find the niqab scary then maybe thy shud approach a niqabi and ask them why they wear maybe that will help thm bcome less scared like i said before th nazis and the kkk wore costumes to deindividuate themselves to terrorise people whereas niqabis just wnt to mark their modesty, im sure if any1 had any misconceptions of the niqab if they appraoched a niqabi they wouldnt mind explaining to them, its all abt educating others

peacegirl Mon, 16 Oct 2006 - 22:57

Exquisite

stmark
Exquisitesis, if you wear the niqab well done to you im so proud of you and im 100% totally behind you.

and Stmark stop comparing the niqab to the kkk and nazis you cant make a comparison like that

I was comparing his reasoning, it's a scary outfit and to a lot of brits the niqaab is to.

in future reference please refer to me as a she or if not just call me Exquisite 🙂

if people find the niqab scary then maybe thy shud approach a niqabi and ask them why they wear maybe that will help thm bcome less scared like i said before th nazis and the kkk wore costumes to deindividuate themselves to terrorise people whereas niqabis just wnt to mark their modesty, im sure if any1 had any misconceptions of the niqab if they appraoched a niqabi they wouldnt mind explaining to them, its all abt educating others

Yeah it should work BOTH ways!! Maybe the non believer may learn by approaching the niqaabi! I think people shold just try and understand each others views. and work together to make things better!

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