Wanton destruction of Palestine and Lebanon

You —

Salaam

I was not gonna start this topic.

Just too erm... I got no words to say. Nothing I can do.#

Just hopeless.

Destroying basic infrastructure is collective punishment. Its a breach of basic human rights. Blowing up power stations, water treatment facilities, bridges does not release a single prisoner.

Flying Jets through Syria as a 'gesture' to say you can't, shouldn't, wouldn't do anything is just gross.

And all this makes people angry.

Not the most fluent post ever. Not thinking straight enough to be. I am not angry. Just no idea what to feel. Or think. Or write.

(and I ruin a good topic by making it all me, me, me.)

EDIT: Title updated ------------- Modnster

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317 comments

latifah Wed, 9 Aug 2006 - 09:20

The Great 100

...But I believe most of those killed have been Hizballah...

This shows the astonishing level of self delusion among Israel’s defenders.
100 has lost touch with reality.

zara Wed, 9 Aug 2006 - 10:23

AdminMy view is I was not sure, but knew she deserved some sort of answer. :twisted:

So I gave a safe one. One which would not possibly cross any boundaries.

what do you mean, would not cross any boundaries?

You Wed, 9 Aug 2006 - 10:47

I mentioned the roles that could clearly be done, without commenting on those which wouldm require a bit more research.

But since my answer has been improved on by DUST.

zara Wed, 9 Aug 2006 - 12:10

AdminI mentioned the roles that could clearly be done, without commenting on those which wouldm require a bit more research.

But since my answer has been improved on by DUST.

so is that a 'yes' or 'no' to my question? i don't understand your language- too posh.

zara Wed, 9 Aug 2006 - 19:20

Muslim BroI don't remember about Nusaybah bint Ka'b (r.a) so if Dust is right then women surely can take part in jihad.....can't they?

yep, so now all i need is a ticket to kashmir

MuslimBro Wed, 9 Aug 2006 - 19:36

'Damage is done' to Lebanon coast

Lebanon's coastline could take up to 10 years to recover from a massive oil spill, the nation's environment minister has said.

Yacoub Sarraf said it was impossible to tackle the problem while the conflict between Hezbollah and Israel continued.

Marine experts have warned the spill could pose a cancer risk to people living in the affected areas.

The oil slick caused by Israeli bombing of a power station now covers 120km (75 miles) of the region's coasts.

Mr Sarraf said the delay had already severely affected the Lebanese shores.

"The damage has been done. It goes without saying that the whole fishing community will be hit for at least two or three years before the ecosystem re-establishes itself," he told BBC News.

"The tourism sector has also been hit for one or two seasons, and I am being very optimistic.

"But worse, if we do not intervene as soon as possible, the spill that is still floating off the coast of Lebanon could return and hit the shores again."

Mr Sarraf added that until there was a ceasefire, it would be impossible to begin any clean-up operation.

"We cannot get equipment, companies, labour or know-how to handle the problem," he said.

"If you compare this to any spill in history, intervention can help within the first 48-72 hours of the spill; we are already 20 days too late."

Marine experts from Inforac, an organisation with links to the United Nations Environment Programme (Unep), issued a warning on Tuesday that the raid on the Jiyyeh Power plant in mid-July could pose a cancer risk to people living in the area.

Spokeswoman Simonetta Lombardo said the spill of fuel oil was a "high-risk toxic cocktail made up of substances which cause cancer and damage to the endocrine system".

The experts warned that the first people at risk from the "toxic spray" were the two million inhabitants of Beirut.

They also said that large quantities of dead fish along Lebanon's shores had been killed by the oil pollution.

A spokeswoman for Unep's Mediterranean Action Plan (MAP) said it was too early to judge the impact of the pollution on the area's environment.

"It is premature to derive any conclusion on the type of oil and the potential health impacts before having conducted a sample analysis of the spill," said Luisa Colasimone.

"No conclusion can be done at this stage before we have people on the ground".

She added that a team of UN experts had arrived in Syria on Tuesday and one of their tasks would be to take samples of the oil spill.

Basma Badran, a Beirut-based spokeswoman for Greenpeace, said no clean-up operation would get under way until workers' safety could be guaranteed.

"It is an extremely risky task to make the proper assessment while under fire," she told BBC News.

"Several countries are on stand-by to send technical and expert assistance if the safety of their supplies and teams can be guaranteed."

Ms Badran added that international help was essential because the Lebanese authorities lacked any capacity to deal with such a large spill.

The Lebanese environment minister said the latest satellite images showed the oil slick was continuing to spread across the eastern Mediterranean Sea, threatening the coastlines of Turkey and possibly Cyprus.

However, a spokesman for Turkey's prime minister said the risk to the country's shores was "fairly limited", but aircraft were carrying out regular monitoring flights and that naval vessels were ready to deploy floating barriers if needed.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/5255966.stm

zara Wed, 9 Aug 2006 - 19:38

Muslim Bro

'Damage is done' to Lebanon coast

Lebanon's coastline could take up to 10 years to recover from a massive oil spill, the nation's environment minister has said.

Yacoub Sarraf said it was impossible to tackle the problem while the conflict between Hezbollah and Israel continued.

Marine experts have warned the spill could pose a cancer risk to people living in the affected areas.

The oil slick caused by Israeli bombing of a power station now covers 120km (75 miles) of the region's coasts.

Mr Sarraf said the delay had already severely affected the Lebanese shores.

"The damage has been done. It goes without saying that the whole fishing community will be hit for at least two or three years before the ecosystem re-establishes itself," he told BBC News.

"The tourism sector has also been hit for one or two seasons, and I am being very optimistic.

"But worse, if we do not intervene as soon as possible, the spill that is still floating off the coast of Lebanon could return and hit the shores again."

Mr Sarraf added that until there was a ceasefire, it would be impossible to begin any clean-up operation.

"We cannot get equipment, companies, labour or know-how to handle the problem," he said.

"If you compare this to any spill in history, intervention can help within the first 48-72 hours of the spill; we are already 20 days too late."

Marine experts from Inforac, an organisation with links to the United Nations Environment Programme (Unep), issued a warning on Tuesday that the raid on the Jiyyeh Power plant in mid-July could pose a cancer risk to people living in the area.

Spokeswoman Simonetta Lombardo said the spill of fuel oil was a "high-risk toxic cocktail made up of substances which cause cancer and damage to the endocrine system".

The experts warned that the first people at risk from the "toxic spray" were the two million inhabitants of Beirut.

They also said that large quantities of dead fish along Lebanon's shores had been killed by the oil pollution.

A spokeswoman for Unep's Mediterranean Action Plan (MAP) said it was too early to judge the impact of the pollution on the area's environment.

"It is premature to derive any conclusion on the type of oil and the potential health impacts before having conducted a sample analysis of the spill," said Luisa Colasimone.

"No conclusion can be done at this stage before we have people on the ground".

She added that a team of UN experts had arrived in Syria on Tuesday and one of their tasks would be to take samples of the oil spill.

Basma Badran, a Beirut-based spokeswoman for Greenpeace, said no clean-up operation would get under way until workers' safety could be guaranteed.

"It is an extremely risky task to make the proper assessment while under fire," she told BBC News.

"Several countries are on stand-by to send technical and expert assistance if the safety of their supplies and teams can be guaranteed."

Ms Badran added that international help was essential because the Lebanese authorities lacked any capacity to deal with such a large spill.

The Lebanese environment minister said the latest satellite images showed the oil slick was continuing to spread across the eastern Mediterranean Sea, threatening the coastlines of Turkey and possibly Cyprus.

However, a spokesman for Turkey's prime minister said the risk to the country's shores was "fairly limited", but aircraft were carrying out regular monitoring flights and that naval vessels were ready to deploy floating barriers if needed.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/5255966.stm

great, just what they need!

You Fri, 11 Aug 2006 - 20:10

Pro-Israel pressure strong in US

Since the start of the current violence in Lebanon, the United States' position has remained consistent: it is only sensible to have an Israeli ceasefire when it can be a sustainable one.

In other words, when Hezbollah has been sufficiently weakened to no longer pose a threat.

That is a view that has been at odds with many European nations, who have argued for an immediate Israeli ceasefire.

The reasons for that difference in emphasis are complex but many people point to the power of the Israel lobby in the United States as a key factor.

The leading organisation trying to secure US support for Israel is Aipac, the American Israel Public Affairs Committee.

Aipac is a special interest group established more than 50 years ago.

Today it has more than 100,000 members across 50 states.

It regularly holds meetings with members of Congress and provides analysis of the voting records of US lawmakers.

'No dark caves'

Whilst Aipac is the largest pro-Israel group in America, there are many other organisations representing Jewish interests in the US - interests that often coincide with those of Israel.

"There's not a great conspiracy where at seven o'clock in the morning we meet in a cave and discuss strategy together," says William Daroff from the United Jewish Communities, an umbrella organisation for American Jewish groups.

"Of course we speak with other Jewish groups about Israel, but there's no co-ordinated programme."

United Jewish Communities is just one of a number of organisations promoting Israel's interests in Washington.

Stephen Walt of Harvard University's Kennedy School of Government co-wrote a recent paper outlining what he regards as the power of the Israel lobby on US policy.

"They can help you or hurt you, depending on whether or not they like what you stand for," he told the BBC in a recent interview.

Changing loyalties

Part of the power wielded by the lobby is electoral.

Jewish voters make up less than 3% of the US electorate but they are an important voting block.

Historically the majority of them have voted for the Democratic Party.

There is some evidence that is changing.

Over the last 20 years a new generation of young Jewish voters seems to be more evenly split in its loyalty to the two main parties.

Back in 2000, the Jewish vote in Florida was a key factor in the Republican victory there, and by extension nationwide.

Christian backing

But Israel also gets support from another, far larger voting block - evangelical Christians.

More than one in three Americans describe themselves as "born-again" or "evangelical" Christians, according to the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life.

Last month Pastor John Hagee led a 3,400-strong delegation to Congress in support of Israel.

He leads a group called Christians United For Israel, which regards support for Israel as a religious imperative.

"Israel is the only nation Christians are told to pray for in the Bible," he said in a recent interview.

"Because the Bible is the compass of our faith, we do what it says. Every anti-Semite is going to spend eternity in hell without God."

Clearly the pro-Israel lobby in the United States is significantly stronger than in European nations, for example.

So it is not surprising that Israel receives significantly more financial assistance from the United States than from any other country.

Every year, $3bn flow from the US to Israel in economic and military aid.

Israel has been Washington's largest recipient of aid for 30 years.

The prevailing political culture in the United States may appear to favour Israel.

But that mood is not necessarily shared by all Americans.

A recent poll in the New York Times suggested that a slight majority of Americans feel their government should not be unquestioning in its support for Israel's war against Hezbollah.

If that begins to influence congressmen against supporting Israel, the power of the Israel lobby will be put to the test.

BBC News

SAINT GEORGE ZHUKOV Sat, 12 Aug 2006 - 19:58

raaaaaaaaaaa!

never expected 100 to chat such crap...

i had respect for him in da old forum.....

now he claimin dat most lebanese dead r "hezbullah"

shockin.... :shock:

cant believe dat my country supportin the killing of innocents....

it all cos blair is too cowardly to break away from dat son of a bush in washington.....

if israel wanna fight hezbollah, then let them take their infrantry into lebanon and fight em like men.......

dont bomb beriut & elsewhere from the air.....dats cowardly......

zara Sat, 12 Aug 2006 - 20:05

SAINT GEORGEraaaaaaaaaaa!

never expected 100 to chat such crap...

i had respect for him in da old forum.....

now he claimin dat most lebanese dead r "hezbullah"

shockin.... :shock:

cant believe dat my country supportin the killing of innocents....

it all cos blair is too cowardly to break away from dat son of a bush in washington.....

if israel wanna fight hezbollah, then let them take their infrantry into lebanon and fight em like men.......

dont bomb beriut & elsewhere from the air.....dats cowardly......

they are cowards, all these americans and isrealis

Anonymous (not verified) Sat, 12 Aug 2006 - 20:26

SAINT GEORGEraaaaaaaaaaa!

never expected 100 to chat such crap...

i had respect for him in da old forum.....

now he claimin dat most lebanese dead r "hezbullah"

shockin.... :shock:

......

Nicely put George Galloway 😉

Dave Sat, 12 Aug 2006 - 20:53

Hey good news guys!

It looks like a peace plan is going to be accepted by Israel and Hezbollah.

Both sides think it's one sided - so they don't like it, but at least they are going to accept it so the fighting is at least going to end, God willing.

This is going to be a mess to work out afterward though...

Are there any relief agencies presently working in Southern Lebanon with the victims? I'm sick of being angry on a sideline

MuslimBro Sat, 12 Aug 2006 - 23:50

OdysseusAre there any relief agencies presently working in Southern Lebanon with the victims?

There are many charities and relief agencies working in Southern Lebanon but they risk getting bombed.

Moving anywhere in Lebanon south of the Litani River today is an eerie and unnerving experience.

Since Monday, when Israeli jets dropped leaflets warning unequivocally that any vehicles daring to travel would be hit, there has been virtually no traffic on the roads. Not that there was much before.

So in Tyre, the only way to move without that dire threat hanging over you, is to walk. And even that is hardly comfortable.

Around the corner is the Lebanese Red Cross. Lots of ambulances outside, immobile. Then the sound of an engine, and one moves.

"Don't worry, I'm just parking!" shouts the driver. He is Kassem Shaalan. He knows what it is like to be hit by a rocket.

On the evening of 23 July, he and two other medics answered a call to rendezvous with an ambulance from Tibnin, in the hills to the east, to relay three civilian patients down to Tyre.

Both ambulances were struck precisely by separate rockets as they were stopped at the roadside near Qana for the transfer.

It was 2230 at night. There was nothing else on the road. They were clearly marked, and lit up with flashing blue lights and illuminated Red Cross flags.

Kassem, his two colleagues, the three medics in the other ambulance, and the three Lebanese patients, were all injured.

One of the patients, 38-year-old Ahmad Fawwaz, lost his leg in the ambulance. His mother Jamileh, 58, and son Ahmad, 8, were both seriously injured.

But they all survived. And Kassem is back at work.

"Until now, we don't understand why they did it," he says now. "It has confused us. But it will not stop us. I'm still wearing the Red Cross uniform, and if they tell me to go, I'll go and help.

"Because of the Israeli warning, every movement we do goes through the International Red Cross," he says.

"They ask Israel for permission. If we have it, we go. If we don't, we can't. We get many calls from villages saying they have injured people, but there is no permission to go. Yes, people could be dying because we can't get to them in time. If you don't get treated within one hour, you are much more likely to die."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4781551.stm

You Mon, 14 Aug 2006 - 00:02

Unfortunately I am not sure we will have any real truce.

I remember the US and britain asking for a ceasefire that was... erm well I cannot remember the words. But she was saying something on the lines of acceptable, not the status quo and long lasting.

Both sides are saying they are allowed defensive operations. ITF to defend its troops in southern Lebanon. Hezbollah is removing troops from their land.

So I think we will see a reduction in violence (no rocket attacks, no bombing of country above the litani river) overall, but in the main areas things will continue as they are atm.

MuslimBro Mon, 14 Aug 2006 - 20:15

There has been no direct fighting between Hezbollah & Israel which is good although Israel said it had killed at least four Hezbollah fighters in later clashes after the ceasefire had started.

Israel still has the sea and air blocade over Lebanon. They also have the curfew in which no moving vehicles are allowed below the litani river.

Atleast most of the fighting and bombing has stopped.

SAINT GEORGE ZHUKOV Mon, 14 Aug 2006 - 20:18

Muslim BroThere has been no direct fighting between Hezbollah & Israel which is good although Israel said it had killed at least four Hezbollah fighters in later clashes after the ceasefire had started.

dats cos every time isreali soldiers have to fight hizbollah toe to toe they lose...

israel cocked up big time with this war....

even friends of israel r shocked by this conflict...

god help us all.......

You Wed, 16 Aug 2006 - 00:23

US 'knew of Israel bombing plan'

Israel and the United States were in close contact about Israel's war on Hezbollah long before it began, a US investigative journalist has claimed.

"Israel had devised a plan for attacking Hezbollah, and shared it with Bush administration officials, well before" 12 July, Seymour Hersh wrote.

The article in the New Yorker magazine relies on many anonymous sources and includes denials from US officials.

It does not claim that the US put Israel up to attacking Hezbollah.

Seymour Hersh is a Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist, whose past work includes exposing the Abu Ghraib prison scandal and Vietnam's My Lai massacre.

'Pre-emptive visit'

Israel's "immediate security issues were reason enough to confront Hezbollah, regardless of what the Bush administration wanted," Mr Hersh cites "Israeli military and intelligence experts" as saying.

But, Hersh says, Israeli officials visited Washington to secure US support for its plans before Hezbollah captured two Israeli soldiers on 12 July, the ostensible cause of the Israeli bombardment of Lebanon.

"Israel began with [Vice-President Dick] Cheney. It wanted to be sure that it had his support and the support of ... the National Security Council," an unnamed US government consultant told Mr Hersh.

With Mr Cheney's backing secured, "persuading [President] Bush was never a problem, and [Secretary of State] Condi Rice was on board," the source added.

Convergent interests

Israel's plan for an air war to turn the Lebanese people against Hezbollah was "the mirror image of what the United States has been planning for Iran," the article quotes an unnamed former senior intelligence official as saying.

And different US government departments which do not always see eye-to-eye all had their own reasons for backing an Israeli assault on Hezbollah, Mr Hersh claims.

The State Department reportedly saw it as "a way to strengthen the Lebanese government", which does not control the south of the country dominated by Hezbollah.

The White House wanted Hezbollah's missiles eliminated so they could not be used as retaliation against Israel in case the US bombed Iran's nuclear facilities, Mr Hersh says.

But both the Pentagon and the National Security Council deny that the US knew of Israel's plans in advance.

Meanwhile, an Israeli embassy spokesman said Israel "did not plan the campaign" to attack Hezbollah, adding: "The decision was forced on us."

Ward Carroll, a retired US Navy officer and editor Military.com, was sceptical of some of Mr Hersh's claims.

Israel would not have relied on any American intelligence or support in its campaign, he told the BBC.

"If the inference is that we are fundamentally interwoven [in the Israeli air campaign], that is a flawed thesis," Mr Carroll said.

He did not doubt that there had been communication between the US and Israel, but suggested Mr Hersh was reading too much into it.

"This would have been a courtesy brief [from Israel to the United States], and the Bush administration saying, 'We got the message.'"

BBC News

MuslimBro Thu, 17 Aug 2006 - 19:28

Mediterranean countries may have to pay for the clean up of a huge oil slick afflicting the Lebanese and Syrian coastlines.

Lebanese environmentalists think that Israel should be sent the bill to clean up after up to 15,000 tonnes of oil poured into the Mediterranean Sea last month after Israeli forces bombed a power station.

I personally think that Israel should pay up, what's your views on this?

Noor Thu, 17 Aug 2006 - 21:22

Muslim Bro

Mediterranean countries may have to pay for the clean up of a huge oil slick afflicting the Lebanese and Syrian coastlines.

Lebanese environmentalists think that Israel should be sent the bill to clean up after up to 15,000 tonnes of oil poured into the Mediterranean Sea last month after Israeli forces bombed a power station.

I personally think that Israel should pay up, what's your views on this?

Yeah they shud defntly pay up, thats the least they can do, after all they are the ones who caused all this mess.

ahmed_7 Sat, 19 Aug 2006 - 18:25

How could ever be a peace when Israel keeps voilating the ceasefire agreement?

Hezbollah 'foils Israeli raid'

Hezbollah fighters inspect the site of the Israeli operation

Hezbollah fighters are said to have foiled an Israeli commando raid west of Baalbek in eastern Lebanon, after clashes that left one Israeli soldier dead and two others wounded.

Media reports quoted Lebanese security sources as saying on Saturday that Israeli aircraft and commandos raided the village of Bodai, west of the ancient city of Baalbek in the Bekaa Valley, at dawn.

The sources said that Israeli warplanes and helicopters attacked unidentified targets during the air drop of the commandos.

Al-Manar TV reported that fighters from Hezbollah clashed with Israeli commandos near Bodai and forced them to fly out under the cover of air strikes.

The Hezbollah-run station said the Israeli unit landed before dawn and was driving into the village when it was intercepted by the fighters, who forced it to retreat under the cover of warplanes.

It said the fighters had inflicted "certain casualties" among the Israeli forces.

Lebanese security sources said that three Hezbollah fighters were also killed in a firefight.

Bassam al-Qadiri, Aljazeera's correspondent in Lebanon, reporting from Bekaa, said that a Hezbollah information official source in Bekaa denied that any of the movement’s fighters had been killed or injured in the airdrop operation.

The source told Aljazeera that six Israeli soldiers were injured during clashes between the fighters and Israeli troops.

A Lebanese security source said the Israeli airdrop operation sought to target Hezbollah leader Muhammad Yazbek.

The Israeli army later confirmed that it had carried out the operation, making it the broadest violation yet of the five-day-old UN-brokered ceasefire that ended 34 days of its attacks on Lebanon.

"Special forces carried out an operation to disrupt terror actions against Israel with an emphasis on the transfer of munitions from Syria and Iran to Hizbollah"

The Israeli army

The army said the raid was to prevent arms being delivered to Hezbollah by Iran and Syria.

"The operation achieved all its aims and Israel will continue to prevent and thwart such shipments to Hezbollah until they are stopped."

The army said one of the soldiers wounded was in a serious condition and the other suffered light injuries.

Lebanon's prime minister accused Israel of violating the UN-brokered ceasefire and said he would take up the issue with Kofi Annan, the UN secretary-general.

"The landing carried out by the Israeli occupation forces today in the Bekaa was a flagrant violation of the cessation of hostilities announced by the Security Council," Fuad Siniora said in a statement.

He added that he had complained to a U.N. delegation that visited him Saturday, and would take up the matter with Annan.

Siniora called the raid a flagrant
violation of the ceasefire

Fawzi Sallukh, the Lebanese foreign minister, said that he discussed the issue with Vijay Nambiar and Terje Roed-Larsen, the visiting UN envoys.

He said they pledged to ask Israel to stop violations of Lebanese territory.

"They promised to raise the issue with Israel to ask them to stop the violations," Sallukh said after a meeting with the envoys who did not wish to comment.

Nambiar and Roed-Larsen were in Beirut to try to ensure that both sides implemented the truce resolution "without delay", a UN source said.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/4749763E-9242-4A0F-99FB-B9CB3BAD32B5.htm

You Wed, 23 Aug 2006 - 16:51

UK cleared of aiding bomb flights

The government did not knowingly assist "acts of terrorism" by allowing US aircraft carrying bombs to Israel to stop at UK airports, a judge has ruled.

The Islamic Human Rights Commission (IHRC) claimed in the High Court the flights encouraged Israel's campaign against Hezbollah in southern Lebanon.

Peter Carter QC, for the IHRC, told the judge that the UK was assisting in "disproportionate military attacks".

The IHRC had sought permission to bring injunction proceedings.

BBC News

What utter tosh!

If the government were tried under the UK terrorism laws, it would be guilty and convicted of many acts of terror.

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