Wanton destruction of Palestine and Lebanon

The Great 100Finkelstein and Chomsky aren't for me.

Why not?

They are both acquiescent to terrorism and unrealistically subversive in their approach to conflict. Chomsky is highly alarmist about the middle east and mixes a rigorous approach to terminology with radical predictions and speculations that don't bear out. I don't know Finkelstein so well but he's not for me.

The Great 100They are both acquiescent to terrorism and unrealistically subversive in their approach to conflict.

How do they aquiese to terrorism?

Who/what do they subvert?

The Great 100Chomsky is highly alarmist about the middle east and mixes a rigorous approach to terminology with radical predictions and speculations that don't bear out.

Can you give me a few examples of his radical predictions and speculations that don't bear out?

The Great 100I don't know Finkelstein so well but he's not for me.

Why isn't he for you?

They're just not for me.

I see.

You have a prejudice against academic criticism of Israel.

Maybe. More likely you're asking questions and it's late.

Well he has come a far away admitting that is is troubled with some if Israels actions!

One step at a time. :twisted:

Also never take a writers points to be dogma. Evryone has bias. look what the person writes, then make your own mind.

The Great 100Maybe. More likely you're asking questions and it's late.

So you'll sleep on it and answer my questions tommorow?

Finkelstein is as pursuasive to Jews as Khalilzad is to Muslims. I don't see the point to challenging the entire existance of the Jewish State, 67 borders and IDF warcrimes are one thing, but the existance of Israel? Reality checks are necessary, it was created legally via a UN mandate, and the sovereign territory of the British Empire was furnished to fulfill the mandate.

🙂 🙂 🙂

Israeli helicopters collide

Friday 21 July 2006, 3:48 Makka Time, 0:48 GMT

Two Israeli helicopters have collided near the Lebanese border, killing four.

Israeli army radio said the two US-built Apache helicopters crashed on Thursday night on a road near Ramat Naftali, 10km (six miles) from the border with Lebanon.

A witness described the casualties as being inside the wreckage.

Each of the helicopters carry a two-person crew.

Aljazeera television said that there were four deaths in the collision but this was neither confirmed nor denied by Israel.

Israeli deaths

Earlier on Thursday, Israel confirmed two of its soldiers had been killed in heavy fighting with Hezbollah fighters just inside the Lebanon border.

The Israeli army said the soldiers had been searching for Hezbollah bases and weapons.

Hezbollah said it lost two of its fighters in the clashes and that it killed four Israeli soldiers.

Israeli police said the number of Katyusha rockets fired by Hezbollah at northern Israel from Lebanon on Thursday was fewer than the daily average for the last eight days.

However, police urged the 1.2m Israelis living in the north of the country to remain vigilant and to stay in shelters.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/0DA31A7B-26FA-44EC-A53E-D525A9E4…

ALLAAAAAAHU AKBAAAAARR

May God curse them, Muslims pray for more IDF woe's.

Beast

The Great 100

*DUST*Neturei Karta - Orthodox Jews United Against Zionism

Dust, they are very strange people. A number of Chasidic groups never supported Israel but very few have done what Neturei Karta have done and stood with the mujahideen. They argue on religious grounds, that the return to Zion is a prophesied messianic event and that mashiach is not here. If you present them as popular or even as potentially agreeable I believe you are mistaken.

Popular and agreeable Jewish critics of Israel are Noam Chomsky and Norman Finkelstein. Beyond Chutzpah is a must read.

The Israeli human rights organisation B'Tselem regularly documents and criticises Israeli violations of international humanitarian law.

interestingly enough, shazan has chosen not to comment on these organisations/people.

*DUST*interestingly enough, Shazan has chosen not to comment on these organisations/people.

Why should I?

I don't turn up to catholics on the street and ask them to reassure me that the don't molest kids.

There are some important questions that you haven't answered regarding anti-Semitism.

When you have attempted an answer you seem to have aroused yet more questions.

In your latest attempt you've brought up Catholics without sufficient explanation as to why you did so.

In order to quell the confusion I'll narrow it down to 2 questions we'd like answers to.

Don't feel compelled to answer them. There's no pressure. I won't judge you.

1. Do Israeli actions cause you to hate all Jews?

2. If so, what is your view on Jewish critics of Israel?

ok guys we have war.

1559 Vs 106, 111, 127, 162, 171, 228, 237, 248, 250, 251, 252, 256, 259, 262, 265, 267, 270, 271, 279, 280, 285, 298, 313, 316, 317, 332, 347, 425, 427, 444, 446, 450, 452, 465, 467, 468, 469, 471, 476, 478, 484, 487, 497, 498, 501, 509,515, 517, 518, 520, 573, 587, 592, 605, 607, 608, 636, 641, 672, 673, 681, 694, 726, 799. Also UNGA resolutions 50/21, 50/22, 49/35, 49/36, 49/62, 49/78, 49/87, 49/88, 49/149, 49/213, 48/40, 48/41, 48/58, 48/59. 48/71, 48/78, 48/94, 48/124, 48/158, and 48/212. (link)

And that is not including those vetoed by theUSA.

Looks to me Israel is planning on extending its borders once more...

After it has never allowed those who flee to return... and it is asking the southern Lebanese to flee (and also bombing them if they listen...).

It has also called up reserves...

The US unofficial timeline given to it has a few days left. Then it will have to decide. I call invasion.

Amir Peretz"we have no intention of conquering Lebanon but... we will do it without thinking twice"

How about just thinking once? :twisted:

AdminLooks to me Israel is planning on extending its borders once more...

That is incorrect. It will be proven incorrect. Israel is upfront.

Beast, if I answer you now it is a short answer, but you are aware of what I say and aware of what those two critics say and we obviously differ. It will have to be Sunday. I can back up my remarks.

We can also talk about the UN Security Council then.

The Great 100Beast, if I answer you now it is a short answer, but you are aware of what I say and aware of what those two critics say and we obviously differ. It will have to be Sunday. I can back up my remarks.

I look forward to it.

Shabot Shalom.

The Great 100

AdminLooks to me Israel is planning on extending its borders once more...

That is incorrect. It will be proven incorrect. Israel is upfront.

Looks like you have taken my wager.

Lets hope you win. The bruised ego will be worth it for the saved lives... but don't count on it.

You have too much faith in Israel.

I myself do not have faith in Israel, Hamas, Hizbollah, or the international community.

Olmert is not a soldier, so he may try to follow previous soldiers. And the previous ones were big on buffer zones.

The Great 100That is incorrect. It will be proven incorrect. Israel is upfront.

Did you not read this quote on the last page?

Israeli government and military officials have repeatedly stated that all care is taken not to cause harm to other Palestinians when they carry out such assassinations. The facts, however, indicate otherwise. Scores of men, women and children bystanders have been killed and hundreds have been injured in the course of assassinations or attempted assassinations of Palestinians by the Israeli army.

http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/ENGMDE150562003
Amnesty International – Israel must end its policy of assassinations, 2003

Beast,

Those two statements are not contradictory. One is saying that all care is taken, the other is saying that bystanders have been killed. We can discuss that also.

Shabbat Shalom, Juma Mubarak!

The Great 100Those two statements are not contradictory. One is saying that all care is taken, the other is saying that bystanders have been killed.

The report goes on to say that the Israelis are so "careful" to avoid civilian deaths they dropped a 1-ton bomb on a crowded apartment block. What's more they knew full well thay they would kill at the very least the target's wife.

On 24 June 2003 Israeli Air Force Commander Major General Dan Halutz said on Israeli army radio that in the assassination of Salah Shehadeh "we fired knowing his wife would be near him". On the night of 22 July 2002 the Israeli army dropped a one-ton bomb from an F16 fighter jet on a densely populated neighbourhood of Gaza City, killing Hamas activist Salah Shehadeh, the target of the attack, and 16 civilians, nine of them children. His wife and daughter were among the victims.

Not to mention the fact that Israel's assassinations are themselves aganist international law.

one tonne? pfft!

They managed TWENTY THREE tonnes in southern lebanon. Inside highly populated area.

israel called up 3000 reserve army soldiers
:roll:

Israel has called up thousands of reserve troops and told civilians to quit southern Lebanon immediately, amid threats of a large-scale incursion.

Correspondents in Jerusalem say it is understood the Israeli reservists being called up could fill in for troops in the West Bank and Gaza, releasing other soldiers to go up to the northern front.

The move has widened speculation that Israel is preparing for a large ground offensive.

Israeli Defence Minister Amir Peretz has warned that Israel is prepared to launch a full-scale ground operation if necessary, saying "we have no intention of conquering Lebanon but... we will do it without thinking twice".

The call-up came as Israel dropped leaflets on southern Lebanon warning residents to immediately evacuate an area approximately 32km (20 miles) wide.

Senior Lebanese officials said the country's army would go into battle if Israel invaded Lebanon.

Full article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5202142.stm

There is an antiwar march tomorrow in london.

Just as well advertised as always....

(pdf)

Not many people showed up.

Seemed to be a lot of socialist workers party supporters around.

Some Muslims present.

I felt intimidated in their presence. :?

latifahNot many people showed up.

Seemed to be a lot of socialist workers party supporters around.

Some Muslims present.

I felt intimidated in their presence. :?

That’s because Stop the War is a branch of the SWP.

I tend not to go with them, and if they’re a revolution, then I’ll be on the first train home!

Just stay with the MAB- your right wasn’t allot of people compare to the Iraqi protest.

Israel 'presses US on bomb sale'

Reports from the US suggest Washington has been asked to speed up a shipment of precision bombs sold as part of a deal with Israel last year.

According to a report in the New York Times, Israel made the request after it began its air assault on Hezbollah targets in Lebanon 12 days ago.

The weapons, including five-tonne laser-guided bombs, are part of a sale signed last year.

Unnamed US officials say the request to speed up delivery is unusual.

The disclosure is likely to anger Arab governments because of the appearance that the United States is actively aiding Israel at such a sensitive time.

Precision-guided missiles are playing a key part in Israel's military strategy, which has included attempts to destroy bunkers it says are used by Hezbollah.

Israel is one of the largest customers for US

BBC News

do not be despondent

lailado not be despondent

What is there not to feel despondent about given the current situation in Lebanon and Palestine?