France in Flames...

irfghan

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irfghan

100irfghan

Just the ones that are, and the ones that aren't facing up to it. It doesn't help that when people go on about challenging kufar and instituting a khalifah you say the neo-nazis have all become ventriloquists, coupled with some comeback about Straussians.

Nobody's explained this to me yet.

Not true, you just quoted it.

So you're just gonna leave it at that?

Looks that way.

what? Jews started them?

:twisted:

I doubt its got much to do with anything.

irfghan

Constantine
Jews are always implicated as these shadowy underhanded people that stick together to manipulate everyone.

Does this have anything to do with the riots in France?

No - it was a response to Salaf's question about an earlier point.

Why do all jews have to be conspiratorial in order for some to be. I don't think all wahhabis are conspiratorial but I know some of them are. The logic you seem to be using is that because bad people (in this case nazi types) say something it must therefore be false. Just because Hitler accussed jews of conspiring doesn't mean that its completely impossible for jews to be capable of conspiring.

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irfghan

So you're just gonna leave it at that?

Looks that way.

So much for 'dialogue'.

irfghanSo much for 'dialogue'.

Dialogue is an 8 letter word...

salafWhy do all jews have to be conspiratorial in order for some to be. I don't think all wahhabis are conspiratorial but I know some of them are. The logic you seem to be using is that because bad people (in this case nazi types) say something it must therefore be false. Just because Hitler accussed jews of conspiring doesn't mean that its completely impossible for jews to be capable of conspiring.

Salaf what do you want me to say to this?

Adolph Hitler killed millions of Jews in ways that scared Western Europe forever and redefined brutality.

All on the possibility jews - some jews, all jews, just jews were conspiring against him and his master race.

Is this something of such grave importance that we need to risk this?

To me - some things are axiomatic. I cannot accept arguments that groups of people have natural tendancies toward malicious behavior just because they are a member of that group.

Admin

irfghanSo much for 'dialogue'.

Dialogue is an 8 letter word...

D-i-a-l-o-g-u-e

Yeah you're right, it is 8.

Constantine
Killing Jesus, Banking, the Crusades, the Plague, International Banking, World War II, Communism, the Neo Cons.

Jews are always implicated as these shadowy underhanded people that stick together to manipulate everyone.

Who ever claimed that the jews were behind the crusades?

Quite a few of them were killed by the crusaders.

And jews did play a large role in introducing usury/banking into Europe (in collaboration with local elites of course).

Voltaire attacked them for it although I can't imagine on what basis he was objecting to usury being an atheist and all.

You can't just lump all the attacks on jews and put it down to anti-semitism. Likewise you couldn't do that with muslims.

irfghan

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irfghan

So you're just gonna leave it at that?

Looks that way.

So much for 'dialogue'.

You're telling me.

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irfghan

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irfghan
So you're just gonna leave it at that?

Looks that way.

So much for 'dialogue'.

You're telling me.

yes he is.

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irfghan

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irfghan

So you're just gonna leave it at that?

Looks that way.

So much for 'dialogue'.

You're telling me.

You're the one who refuses to talk.

Constantine [Salaf what do you want me to say to this?

Adolph Hitler killed millions of Jews in ways that scared Western Europe forever and redefined brutality.

All on the possibility jews - some jews, all jews, just jews were conspiring against him and his master race.

No he killed them because they weren't Aryans just like he killed the gypsies and the slavs and the poles.

salaf

Constantine
Killing Jesus, Banking, the Crusades, the Plague, International Banking, World War II, Communism, the Neo Cons.

Jews are always implicated as these shadowy underhanded people that stick together to manipulate everyone.

Who ever claimed that the jews were behind the crusades?

Quite a few of them were killed by the crusaders.

And jews did play a large role in introducing usury/banking into Europe (in collaboration with local elites of course).

Voltaire attacked them for it although I can't imagine on what basis he was objecting to usury being an atheist and all.

You can't just lump all the attacks on jews and put it down to anti-semitism. Likewise you couldn't do that with muslims.

The Jews during the Crusades were considered to be in league with the Saracens, furthermore their presence was a blight and our continuing to allow them on our soil offended God (this resurfaces during the plague) - thus they had to be removed.

And what was so wrong with that? They looked like saracens - they had strange practices like saracens.

Like I said before - a conspiracy doesn't have to be real to do damage, imagined conspiracies have done plenty of damage over the years.

In fact I would submit every example I gave above is an example of an assumed conspiracy by the Jews which has in the end been tragically false.

irfghan

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irfghan

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irfghan

So you're just gonna leave it at that?

Looks that way.

So much for 'dialogue'.

You're telling me.

You're the one who refuses to talk.

I think that's what it is. I'm very shy.

And besides Hitler's theories were based on a belief in eugenics.

I hope you're not suggesting that I believe in that.

salaf

Constantine [Salaf what do you want me to say to this?

Adolph Hitler killed millions of Jews in ways that scared Western Europe forever and redefined brutality.

All on the possibility jews - some jews, all jews, just jews were conspiring against him and his master race.

No he killed them because they weren't Aryans just like he killed the gypsies and the slavs and the poles.

Did you ever read the poison mushroom?

Jews were an inferior race - but there were lots of inferior races - jews were particularly awful because they conspired to destroy Germany - they tried to turn german women into whores through their theaters, and they tried to impoverish the german people with their banks.

salafAnd besides Hitler's theories were based on a belief in eugenics.

I hope you're not suggesting that I believe in that.

Hitlers theories were based on madness - and of course i'm not suggesting anything of the kind.

Constantine

salaf

Constantine [Salaf what do you want me to say to this?

Adolph Hitler killed millions of Jews in ways that scared Western Europe forever and redefined brutality.

All on the possibility jews - some jews, all jews, just jews were conspiring against him and his master race.

No he killed them because they weren't Aryans just like he killed the gypsies and the slavs and the poles.

Did you ever read the poison mushroom?

Jews were an inferior race - but there were lots of inferior races - jews were particularly awful because they conspired to destroy Germany - they tried to turn german women into whores through their theaters, and they tried to impoverish the german people with their banks.

My point was Hitler didn't need an excuse to wipe out a group. Most Europeans believed in a jewish conspiracy back then anyway despite his efforts. It wasn't something he invented and through it was able to wipe them out. Most Germans did not participate in the killings of minorites of any kind.

The Jews during the Crusades were considered to be in league with the Saracens, furthermore their presence was a blight and our continuing to allow them on our soil offended God (this resurfaces during the plague) - thus they had to be removed.

And what was so wrong with that? They looked like saracens - they had strange practices like saracens.

Oh I thought you meant they were accussed of being responsible for the crusades.

Like I said before - a conspiracy doesn't have to be real to do damage, imagined conspiracies have done plenty of damage over the years.

In fact I would submit every example I gave above is an example of an assumed conspiracy by the Jews which has in the end been tragically false.

I don't think you can compare the association of jews with banking to the plague theory. One is a prejudice that was motivated by religious belief and based on fact. The other is just a story with no historical basis.

'Hitler was not that bad.'

He only murdered in genocide and holocaust over 12 million people.

I do not care who came out with the justification first or last. what hitler did was evil. he used prevalent doubt to do it.

salaf,

How did Jews get into banking?

salafMy point was Hitler didn't need an excuse to wipe out a group. Most Europeans believed in a jewish conspiracy back then anyway despite his efforts. It wasn't something he invented and through it was able to wipe them out. Most Germans did not participate in the killings of minorites of any kind.

lol my grandfather used to tell me that on V-E day he couldn't find a single Nazi in all of Germany.

Anyway... you are making my point for me. Hitler didn't need an excuse to wipe out the Jews - he believed it was necessary just like "most Europeans" because he bought into the conspiracy (and he was crazy) just like "most Europeans."

And - I think you would agree the conspiracy theory was wrong. As it turns out they weren't trying to pervert German women, impoverish German families or destroy German culture.

All that destruction for a lie.

That's why you shouldn't buy into this stuff

salafI don't think you can compare the association of jews with banking to the plague theory. One is a prejudice that was motivated by religious belief and based on fact. The other is just a story with no historical basis.

Jews controlled banking in Europe because Christians could not - not because Jews were out to destroy the world or control Europe.

All the nonsense Christians constructed that Jews controlled banking in an effort to destroy Europe was conspiratorial.

*i'm talking about jews in banking during the medieval times and renaissance*

No. Jews were not allowed to trade anything with gentiles but money. Interest rates were capped. It was a longstanding practise enforced by Christian monarchs. Those Jews were thus very competitive, and supported a number of communities and initiatives. Gentile suspicions grew and it seemed there literally was no way for the Jew to 'keep himself to himself' unless he wanted to watch his village burn. Anyway, that is the Jewish thing with finance, and politics. In places it was like this up until the turn of the 20th Century.

100No.

There was a papal ban on usury making banking impossible for Christians. And since nobody can keep their less socially acceptable pleasures under control banking with interest became a necessity - especially after the templar and hospitaller banks closed.

100salaf,

How did Jews get into banking?

I don't know enough about banking to talk about it in depth but I'll address the basis of the stereotype. Christians until very recently believed that usury was forbidden but some jews in medievel and early modern Europe did engage in it with the collaboration of local lords. For this they were resented. Like I mentioned before even Voltaire who was argueing for equal rights for jews in France made this criticism. I imagine the "jew as a banker" stereotype is just an extension of this. Although like I said it seems strange today when usury is practiced by everyone.

No, but I have edited my earlier 'no' fyi.

100No. Jews were not allowed to trade anything with gentiles but money. Interest rates were capped. It was a longstanding practise enforced by Christian monarchs. Those Jews were thus very competitive, and supported a number of communities and initiatives. Gentile suspicions grew and it seemed there literally was no way for the Jew to 'keep himself to himself' unless he wanted to watch his village burn. Anyway, that is the Jewish thing with finance, and politics. In places it was like this up until the turn of the 20th Century.

Ironic communism was considered a jewish plot.

Probably at the same time banking was.

And today is today is today, for all of us here. Not like anyone owes me an apology, nor vice versa. If anything, Dave, you're a magnanimous conversationalist, but there's no need imho. The only big conclusion I draw is that literal and emotive dogmatism is a very poor guide for humanity.