Halaal Meat: HMC vs HFA

I would suspect that HFA would allow both and not mandate stunning - their requirement is that the animal is alive when slaughtered and if the animal is not stunned, the same standards are met.

Has anyone come across this outfit before? www.haboard.com they seem new but have some serious scholars backing them?

JZK

WS

No  havent and I suspect that this is your own monitoring board of choice, or maybeone you are creating.

I found out today that my local butchers are HMC certified. Or they said so.

No i'm not affiliated with them but will try and get intouch with someone who is (not sure how though, theres no clients on their website) i was more interested in the scholars backing it, Seems to have come about overnight.

Just read that HMC are considering going into liquidation due to tax issues. (maybe this is a HMC project)

No idea

Let me know if you hear anything pleae.

Where did you hear that about HMC?

I came across it on the net, lol it goes into liquidation because it cant/wont pay taxes,

http://behalal.org/home/uk-halal-monitoring-committee-limited-goes-into…

Thats really quite funny, Tax evasion for a company that certifies halal. Actually its shameful. But they have their new directtors in place and will trade as HMC UK.

DEFRA requires the blood of animal being slaughter to be drained. shariah has two aspects of haram...one is technical aspect..which requires the blood to be drained as blood has been declared haram, and other is spiritual that Allahs name must be invoked at the time of zabiha..

I am not sure if the animal dies while stunning..the DEFRA allows that meat to be marketted.

I am no scholar....while I understand that stunning and animal and then cutting its throat..............and cutting its throat directly might not have exactly the same effect, but it would fulfill the requirement of draining the blood in letter and significantly in spirit.

the confusion that i am trying to remove here is that this idea among the masses that they(christians) stun the animal to kill it is ridiculous...they dont use stunning to kill the animal...it is still killed by cutting its jugular vein..

I would avoid  categorizing HMC and HFC as halal/haram..

Wallah Alam.......just make an informed and educated decision and stick by it.

I WORKED IN 2 DIFERENT SLAUGHTER HOUSES ONE HFA APPROVED THE OTHER HMC APPROVED. hmc is more strict with halal because they have inspectors present at every slaughter house EVERY DAY FROM THE FIRST SLAUGHTER TO THE LAST, HFA turn up once a year and will certify anybody AS LONG AS YOU PAY THEIR FEES .FOR me its HMC all the WAY NON STUNNED HALAL WHERE THE ANIMAL SUFFERS LESS.

Counter-PlotterSalaam to all, Very nice to hear from brothers and sisters (strongly supporting HMC). Please don't take me as an anti-HMC. I'm a stronger HMC admirer than you people. The point I want to clarify is that 'like eating non-halal meat is threatening to one's Eimaan, so is not eating halal meat'. Try to understand this thing. Being a Hafiz (Alhamdulillah) myself, I can give you references from the Qur'an where Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala Prohibits from refraining from halal things. Have you ever seen HFA- or HMC-monitored slaughtering processes with your own eyes or are you just spreading a heard word? For your kind perusal, I append below a reply from HFA to my query: "Your yesterday’s email refers. HFA is always committed to ensure that 3 basic criteria of halal slaughtering are met, that are; Animal/bird should not die prior to slaughter, All the flowing blood is drained out, and; Muslim should do the rendition. These criteria are met in both manual and mechanical slaughter as chickens are stunned to immobilize only (thus, alive before slaughter) and Muslims are present on slaughtering line for rendition. Slaughterhouses and KFC stores are regularly audited to ensure full compliance. Ma’assalam Saqib Mohammed Audit & Inspection Manager Halal Food Authority, 109 Fulham Palace Rd, London , W6 8JA , ENGLAND T: +44 20 8563 1994 | M: +44 7723602772 | F: +44 20 8563 1993 E: info@halalfoodauthority.co.uk | W: www.halalfoodauthority.co.uk P Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail CONFIDENTIALITY: This email is private and confidential and the contents are intended for the recipient(s) only. The views expressed in this message are not necessarily the views of the organization. If you have received this email in error or believe it may have been altered or amended in transmission please advise Halal Food Authority immediately by phone or fax. Virus warning: although this email and any attachments are believed to be free from viruses it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure they are virus free. Halal Food Authority accepts no responsibility for any loss or damage arising in any way from their receipt, opening or use. Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 4:26 AM To: info@halalfoodauthority.co.uk Subject: Assalam-u-alaikum Few of my friends don't rely on HFA's certified products, as they believe that HFA allows stunned meat to be Halal and not every animal is slaughtered in Islamic way; they say that only the first animal is slaughtered Islamically but the rest is dealt with mechanically. They say that HMC is the only thing reliable. Is that true? They also forbid me to go to halal KFC outlets because they are certified by HFA. Please guide. JazakAllah khairan. Wassalam."

Any what about the most important criteria for doing anything. Prophet(PBUH) said 'Do as you have seen me do it?'

W'salam Zaheer,

Thats exactly the point I had made. This idea of putting a big question mark on something and then applying stricter then necessary sharia principles is not just absurd, it creates a trend that no one can escape and it comes back to bite people in the rear. I am from Pakistan, with all the stories that I have heard about what goes in slaugherhouses if I put a big question mark on their halal-ability I would have to become a vegetarian. 

The argument against HFC but  HMC fans is actually an assumption that if you do stunning and zabina, the animal might die or some blood might not be flow out is completely rediculous. Allowing blood to flow out is a necessary step to get rid of as much blood as possible...because its the blood that is haraam. 

Firstly, if animal dies its not just haram as per Quran, its also haram/not premitted to be consumed as per DEFRA regulations. DEFRA regulations require that animal be alive so that blood can flow out. The stunning is used only to immoblize and cause less distress (which by the way should be scientifically investigated). Apart from zabiha another requiremnt is that the process should be completed as soon as possible without putting animal in stress....and it is scientifically proven that when in stress animals and us humans as well, release harmones in the blood stream like adrenaline. I have seem Muslim butchers in Muslim countries putting animal in so much stress, they take a good 10-15 mins to finish the process. An often one animal is slaughtered in front of another, which is also not allowed in Islam.

Secondly, even if you do zabiha there is no gaurantee that all blood will flow out..its is only a precautionary first and necessary step, the meat of the animal should then be fullly cooked to get rid of any ill effects of the blood that has still remained in the animal. Musims might have noticed themselves when witnessing zabhina during eid ul azha...some aniimals do die out comparatively quickly then others, it all depends on the health of animal and how strong its heart is. I have heard of cases where animal collapses under stress..even before zabiha.

My huumble advice to brothers and sisters is that do not make it an issue of halal and haram..they both are halal..and do not unnecessarily question the integrity or eman of people of HFC or those who are consuming HFC products.

jazakAllah

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21312004

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21312004

Was it HFA or HMC?

hfa

though i personally dont rely on hmc or hfa as once people get the license they sdont get monitered anymore. so the owners  jsut get the cheapest meat they can find not bothering halal or harram you jsut have to see for yourself which company they get it from and if that companies good

@abualabbasassaffah7

What makes you so sure that it was HFA? Can you please provide a valid reference?

it was reported in bbc...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21312004

"These results shocked us as the manufacturer in question is accredited by the Halal Food Authority."

i have changed my mind about HFA, it appears these guys are as lousy as people have been saying.

Ewwwww what?!

I feel like going vegetarian...and that would be so hard for me!

Do they even test it or just stamp it with "HFA"?!

It's disgusting. And with all these findings of horse meat being sold, I think Muslims were glad they "know" where their meat is from - at least it's halal. But it seems you can't even make sure of that :/

HFA doesn't certify any porcine items.  The DNA traces of pork suggests that the manufacturer was mixing pork with halal meat.  And only Allah knows the best.

Follow this link for HFA's justification:

http://www.halalfoodauthority.com/HFA_demands_explanation.pdf

counter_plotterFollow this link for HFA's justification:

 

http://www.halalfoodauthority.com/HFA_demands_explanation.pdf

hmmm thanks

@counter_plotter

if you read that pdf of HFA, they are not really offering any justification or explanation in that pdf, rather they these morons seem to be moaning and  questioning the tests that were carried out....and oh yeah...they are pissed at why they were not informed first before release the results to media.....big deal.

Personally I dont blame HFA for this mishap..it would have happened a day after HFA audited that manufacturer or processer of meat, but they are not trying to save their own reputation and questioning the entire episode....now contrast this with the attitude of those non Muslims who have unreservidly appoligized for this happening on their watch.

My advice to all Muslims would be to stop using any kind of processed meat products....stick to buying raw meat from butchers..with that atleast we will no ? (question mark) )hanging over our dinner plates.

******it COULD have happened a day after******

*****but they are NOW trying to save their own reputation****

counter_plotter@abualabbasassaffah7

What makes you so sure that it was HFA? Can you please provide a valid reference?

becauase in the very bbc article it says by the halal food authority hfa stands for halal food authority

http://www.halalfoodauthority.com/

HMC is the one for me. I trust it, totally.

Stunning big animals like Lamb or Cow would work fine as they are not going to die from it but as per chicken is concerned i would say stunning would easily kill them.

HFC and HMC = Lamb or Cow

HMC = Chicken

If you have a option to buy HMC certified meat then go for it , why taking risk?