Baroness Flather: Polygamy, welfare benefits and an insidious silence

lollywood —

In this disturbing and brave exposé, a Pakistan-born baroness reveals how some of her countrymen have as many children as possible by several wives so as to milk our welfare system...

Behind the creation of the modern welfare state lay a noble ideal. The post-war generation of politicians and civil servants were motivated by the desire to protect the vulnerable, the sick and those in genuine poverty.

Tragically, over recent decades, the system has become corrupted. It might have once been a safety net for those in real difficulties but, today, parts of the benefits structure have become a lucrative racket for claimants who lack any sense of social responsibility.

As I said in Parliament this week, there is now a growing wealth of evidence that the generosity of the welfare state encourages some Muslims from these two regions — along with plenty of white families — to produce ever larger families in order to claim extra payments and publicly-subsidised housing. And it’s something the system seems to allow too easily.

But the state handouts do not end there, for under Islamic Sharia law, polygamy is permissible. So a man can return to Pakistan, take another bride and then, in a repetition of the process, bring her to England where they also have children together — obtaining yet more money from the state.

Because such Islamic multiple-marriages are not recognised in Britain, the women are regarded by the welfare system as single mothers — and are therefore entitled to the full range of lone-parent payments.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2037998/UK-immigration-Polygamy…

Forum

You — Tue, 27 Sep 2011 - 18:14

If those welfare children then grow up, get decent jobs, fund loads of people benefits and pensions and more, whats so bad about it?

Thinking about just the now is very short sighted and does not consider future prosperity.

You — Tue, 27 Sep 2011 - 18:19

What about it?

It can be done, and the thing about marriage is that it has a definition agreed upon by all countries, so marriage in one country is valid in another (and this is also the reason why gay civil unions are not called marriage - as they would not be valid in all countries).

lollywood — Tue, 27 Sep 2011 - 18:40

[quote=You]
It can be done,
[/quote]

OK, but should it be done on benefits?

[quote=You]
and the thing about marriage is that it has a definition agreed upon by all countries, so marriage in one country is valid in another (and this is also the reason why gay civil unions are not called marriage - as they would not be valid in all countries).
[/quote]

One has to follow the law of the land they are in we can't have one rule for one person and one rule for another that just makes a mockery of the law as a whole

If people want Sharia law and traditions they can go to any Muslim country of there choice there are lots to choice from but they don’t have a benefit system like the western ones that’s for sure hence the choice is a western country most of the times

lollywood — Tue, 27 Sep 2011 - 19:02

[quote=You]UK law is that it recognises marriage that is enacted elsewhere.

That is not making a mockery of the law.[/quote]

But then would it recognise 2 marriages of the same person with different wives?

lollywood — Tue, 27 Sep 2011 - 19:08

[quote=You]
If they were single would they be getting benefits?
[/quote]
Yes, but that's different because its 1 person and when it comes to Polygamy a Muslim man can have upto 7 wives

[quote=You]
AFAIK you get more benefits being single than married.[/quote]

True, but Dave said that they were going to change that

TPOS — Tue, 27 Sep 2011 - 19:10

[quote=lollywood][quote=You]
If they were single would they be getting benefits?
[/quote]
Yes, but that's different because its 1 person and when it comes to Polygamy a Muslim man can have upto 7 wives

[quote=You]
AFAIK you get more benefits being single than married.[/quote]

True, but Dave said that they were going to change that[/quote]
4*

You — Tue, 27 Sep 2011 - 19:46

[quote=lollywood]Imagine living with 4 wives at the same time[/quote]

I wouldnt want to.

(The number 7 is I have no iea from where. even if only one wife was allowed at a time, there is AFAIK, no limit on the number of marriages a person can have over a lifetime, for either genders.)

TPOS — Tue, 27 Sep 2011 - 19:46

[quote=You][quote=lollywood]Imagine living with 4 wives at the same time[/quote]

I wouldnt want to.

(The number 7 is I have no iea from where. even if only one wife was allowed at a time, there is AFAIK, no limit on the number of marriages a person can have over a lifetime, for either genders.)[/quote]
that's what I thought :/

lollywood — Tue, 27 Sep 2011 - 20:08

[quote=You]
I wouldnt want to?
[/quote]
Why not

[quote=You]
AFAIK, no limit on the number of marriages a person can have over a lifetime, for either genders.)[/quote]

I don't think Muslim women can marry 4 husbands?

lollywood — Tue, 27 Sep 2011 - 20:36

[quote=You]Try reading what I wrote again.[/quote]

[quote=You]
AFAIK, no limit on the number of marriages a person can have over a lifetime, for either genders.)
[/quote]

But then you have said 4 some time before

Ya'qub — Wed, 28 Sep 2011 - 04:12

This article is so stupid if a marriage is not recognised by britain how could the 'new wife' get a visa to come over to britain?
I have loads of friends in genuine marriages who couldn't get a visa for their spouse to even visit britain.

why are you reading the daily mail? its a horrible propaganda tool of the enemies of Islam.

and why ask peoples OPINIONS on what is part of the Muslim faith and is a right/responsibility/blessing/test explicitly laid out in the Qur'an? are you dizzzzy blad?

The Lamp — Wed, 28 Sep 2011 - 17:11

Actually, the "new" wives won't be regarded as single mothers, they will be regarded as cohabitees.
The welfare state still is a safety net to many poor families; however, it was Thatcher who put people out of work for so long who created this dependency culture.
I think the welfare state is far from perfect as it doesn't recognise enough incentives for finding work, but still it has to stay and is in principle a good thing.

lollywood — Wed, 28 Sep 2011 - 18:48

[quote=Ya'qub]This article is so stupid if a marriage is not recognised by britain how could the 'new wife' get a visa to come over to britain?
[/quote]
Not sure but they might come in as single and then declare the marriage or other marriages later after settlement?

[quote=Ya'qub]
I have loads of friends in genuine marriages who couldn't get a visa for their spouse to even visit britain.
[/quote]

I don't understand why they would stop visitors from coming as visitors are a source of revenue for the country they're going to stay in a hotel, buy food, do some shopping among many other things, maybe its because some people come in as health tourists in other words they only come in with the intension of abusing the free NHS health care system getting treated for free and then going back there have been a few cases of this nature that’s why I'm saying

The new trend is get in through the student visa loop holes

[quote=Ya'qub]
why are you reading the daily mail? its a horrible propaganda tool of the enemies of Islam.
[/quote]

I don't but this story caught my eye so I posted it, I'm interested in these kinds of stories

[quote=Ya'qub]
and why ask peoples OPINIONS on what is part of the Muslim faith and is a right/responsibility/blessing/test explicitly laid out in the Qur'an? are you dizzzzy blad?
[/quote]

Just to see what others think

lollywood — Wed, 28 Sep 2011 - 18:55

[quote=The Lamp]
The welfare state still is a safety net to many poor families;
[/quote]

But some people don't think of it like that

[quote=The Lamp]
however, it was Thatcher who put people out of work for so long who created this dependency culture.
I think the welfare state is far from perfect as it doesn't recognise enough incentives for finding work, but still it has to stay and is in principle a good thing.[/quote]
[/quote]

How about all the people that fiddle the system - think of the money that is being wasted which would be used for far better things which could help us all

The Lamp — Tue, 4 Oct 2011 - 17:24

[quote=lollywood][quote=The Lamp]
The welfare state still is a safety net to many poor families;
[/quote]

But some people don't think of it like that

[quote=The Lamp]
however, it was Thatcher who put people out of work for so long who created this dependency culture.
I think the welfare state is far from perfect as it doesn't recognise enough incentives for finding work, but still it has to stay and is in principle a good thing.[/quote]
[/quote]

How about all the people that fiddle the system - think of the money that is being wasted which would be used for far better things which could help us all[/quote]

It doesn't matter if some people don't think of it like that, there is evidence to counter them.

Secondly, mate, I did say that it's far from perfect, but for every person who messes with the system there are quite a few that genuinely benefit from it.