James Bulger Killers - your Opinion.

You —

Just for Background, James Bulger was a two year old who was kidnapped, tortured and murdered in 1993 by a couple of ten year olds. (wikipedia)

The Killers:

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"The two boys, by then aged 11, were found guilty of Bulger's murder at Preston Crown Court on 24 November 1993, the youngest people to be convicted of murder in English criminal history."

Anyway, cutting to the chase, they were "released on parole" in 2001 under strict conditions and lifetime anonymity. If either met with family emmbers of james Bulger or even visited merseyside (or even each other), their parole would be revoked putting them back behind bars.

Recently, one of the killers has gone back to prison (and there is no information released on the whys of it - it could be parole violation, it could be personal safety where their identities were revealed, or it could be due to some other offence.)

One thing that surprised me was the reaction to them on another forum - they were described as scum, and that they should have been put to death for their crimes. But they were only ten!

So where do you stand on this? Are they pure evil where we should all be sharpening our pitchforks, or should people remember that it was a couple of ten year olds upto no good when all this happened?

Forum

Suhail (not verified) — Thu, 4 Mar 2010 - 11:37

yeah i'v read of this case before. i think that it should be questioned where their infleunce for such evil came from...was it perhaps TV or family members...these therefore are all mitigating factors including their age ..they were only 10 even tho the crime was hideous

yet again you have to look at the crime aswel...it was not accidental, it was a premeditated crime whereby they skipped school picked up a child and went straight to train tracks beating him along the way and shoving batteries in the poor childs mouth.
so it can be said they had the 'evi' factor about them...something was directing them towards committing such a crime... i mean can a 10 year old suddenly wake up one day and think im going to kill someone today on the railway tracks...there had to be some influence involved....

and i think the courts had no alternative besides putting them away..after all they had a grieving mother..imagine for a second if the 10 year olds were let off very lightly just because of their age...can't imagine for a second the mothers pain of seeing the killers walk away regardless of their age, after all they were murderers. + out of all of western europe the UK has the lowest criminal liabilty age which is 10 years and this case ..rare as it is shows that yes a 10 year old can premeditate a crime.

i also agree that perhaps when they grew up these two individuals may have shown remorse at their actions and now that there older could never think of comitting such a hideos crime because age bing the vital factor they must have realised such things are wrong..which is a little unrealistic because im sure a 10 year old knows that killing someone is wrong....

yet still they were children at the age and may never escape punishment whether there in jail or not because if they have shown remorse, how can they live with themself for killing a child...so to give them a new identity is only fair as to the circumstances.

You — Thu, 4 Mar 2010 - 18:12

Was it premeditated though? It did not have to be.

All the premeditation could have been to bunk off school. After that (even including it really), everything could ahve just been a roller coaster of "what do we do now?"

PS there is someone currently AFAIK of the age of 8 being tried for something as an adult in Scotland.

TPOS — Thu, 4 Mar 2010 - 18:32

I don't know where i stand with this :S

on the one hand they committed murder! i don't think it matters that they were 10 or not. at the end of the day a ten year old knows about death and know the difference between right and wrong so there's something seriously wrong there. and because they know that ten year old can go to court and even jail if that's necessary.

on the other hand they had had troubled lives and clearly their personal problems have affected them.

and will putting the behind bars really help them? how will they learn properly? do they really understand? and will it not have a worse effect on them over the years, like mentally?

:S

MuslimBro — Fri, 5 Mar 2010 - 01:15

[quote=s.b.f]Who knew what the difference between right and wrong when they were ten years old?
[/quote]
I did, although I still did some naughty things.

However, there's a difference in killing someone.

s.b.f — Fri, 5 Mar 2010 - 03:45

[quote=MuslimBro][quote=s.b.f]Who knew what the difference between right and wrong when they were ten years old?
[/quote]

However, there's a difference in killing someone.[/quote]

You don't say.

Suhail (not verified) — Fri, 5 Mar 2010 - 13:26

[quote=MuslimBro][quote=s.b.f]Who knew what the difference between right and wrong when they were ten years old?
[/quote]
I did, although I still did some naughty things.

However, there's a difference in killing someone.[/quote]

a ten year old should/would know that to kill someone is not acceptable and is completely wrong....either they intended to murder or they had some sort of negative influence upon them.

Suhail (not verified) — Fri, 5 Mar 2010 - 13:29

[quote=You]Was it premeditated though? It did not have to be.

All the premeditation could have been to bunk off school. After that (even including it really), everything could ahve just been a roller coaster of "what do we do now?"

PS there is someone currently AFAIK of the age of 8 being tried for something as an adult in Scotland.[/quote]

hmmm 8 years old ....now that is very young.

Also if a kid bunks off school it's not normal or foreseeable that they would think of committing murder....i mean if they thought of that just after they bunked school...then they are some sick minded individuals.

TPOS — Fri, 5 Mar 2010 - 23:42

[quote=Suhail]
.i mean if they thought of that just after they bunked school...then they are some sick minded individuals.[/quote]

Like i said before, they had problematic lives and their emotional well-being was clearly affected. do courts/judges/juries not take these sort of things into consideration when making a decision?

You — Fri, 5 Mar 2010 - 23:47

I do not see that as an issue. I see their age as an issue. They were ten.

There are many people who swear that if they find out their new identities, they would go and kill them.

Rumours are that the guy is back in prison now because he got into an angry entanglement with a work colleague.

TPOS — Fri, 5 Mar 2010 - 23:53

so you think the age which people can be taken to court should be raised from 10?

i think it should be like 14 or something, 10 is pretty young.

You — Sat, 6 Mar 2010 - 00:03

No, what my argument is that the crime was horrendous. But they were 10. 15/17 years later, when they are adults, they should not still be ostracised to the same extent.

Saying that, I would not think any parent would use them as baby sitters, but the rest of the hate that is abound for these people who were kids at the time...

People can and do change. Especially from what they were like when they were ten.

TPOS — Sat, 6 Mar 2010 - 00:06

[quote=You]No, what my argument is that the crime was horrendous. But they were 10. 15/17 years later, when they are adults, they should not still be ostracised to the same extent.

Saying that, I would not think any parent would use them as baby sitters, but the rest of the hate that is abound for these people who were kids at the time...

People can and do change. Especially from what they were like when they were ten.[/quote]

i agree people can/do change.

but im just thinking and worried about what their psychological state be like

Hajjar — Tue, 9 Mar 2010 - 11:35

dont know if they are pure evil would have to see psychiatric report for that, but they were definitely raised in a disturbing unhealthy environment. It could be mix of nature vs nurture.

right now though ppl are in a frenzy largely driven by the media to have venables anonymity lifted. What so there can be a lynch mob rule and total anarchy? There are serial murderers in our prisons, sex offenders who prey on kids and women, armed burglars etc. Why not send lynch mobs after them also while we're at it? The criminal system means nothing if we the ppl decide to take the law into our own hands.

The Lamp — Tue, 9 Mar 2010 - 11:56

Venables and Thompson were made to watch hard core and violent porn from an early age, rather than Lion King, Toy Story or anything like that. They couldn't differentitate between reality and fantasy; thats why they killed James Bulger.
Ofcourse this is murder and they should still be dealt with, but not by the hardline right-wing approach. I think they were right to have been rehabilitated and released with new identities.
But since Venables has been found with child porn (apparently) he should be out on trial for that under his new name.

Sajid Iqbal — Tue, 9 Mar 2010 - 13:03

i suppose the only way to look at it is:
if james bulger was your son/brother/nephew then what would you want?
you would want justice? and u dont want your sons killer to be given special treatment?

Joie de Vivre — Tue, 9 Mar 2010 - 15:45

[quote=bad boy]CANNOT U ALL JUST SHUT UP ABOUT THIS .... BLOODY MORONS!!!

[/quote]
You haven't put that very well. People get very angry about child abduction and murder and worry about repeat offenders and perhaps it's no injustice to the perpetrators to let them know. What do you say?

You — Tue, 9 Mar 2010 - 16:17

[quote=TheRevivalEditor]i suppose the only way to look at it is:
if james bulger was your son/brother/nephew then what would you want?
you would want justice? and u dont want your sons killer to be given special treatment? [/quote]
Yeah, special treatment like treating a ten year old as an adult in the system. Not everything should be judged on emotion IMO.

Hajjar — Wed, 10 Mar 2010 - 14:34

someone mentioned porn and violent video games being a factor in way they behaved. but to tell the truth i've seen asian parents not too bothered with their underaged kids watching adult movies like for example the terminator. Although this may have desensitized them to violence, they didn't go on to commit something as heinous as killing a toddler. So just makes me think there were other factors involved.