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Admin. If anyone is under the illusion that the British gov, or the infidel Zionists, or the CIA, and/or the devil's minions carried out this attack in order to blame it on Muslims needs to wake up and smell the coffee.
The enemies of Islam and Muslims (whoever they may be) don't need to lay bombs and blame it on Muslims. There are Muslims willing to blow up many a 'dirty kaffir'.
Christians, Hindus, Jews are not inspired by bin Laden. Muslims are.
Extremist clerics and imams do not preach to non-Muslims. Their followers are Muslims.
I do not think it was zionists, CIA, devils minnions or elvis presley.
However there are question which will hopefully be answered.
Remember Muhammad Atta's passport being found at WTC after 9/11? in a a place where temperatures were thought to have got so high as to vaporise human bodies? which They now deny finding, even though John Ashcroft went live on air to say so?
There are questions. They need answering. Simple as.
Especially wether they had prior intelligence.
The current government does have a rtack record of lying, all the way from trivial matters to matters of national security, so I would not really put anything beyond them.
You will see them use this attack to justify many measures, such a ID cards, which have no relevance.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Governments have much to gain as a result of terrorism. Someone somewhere purposely turns a blind eye to some report and boom there's a terrorist attack. That does not mean that Muslims are all innocent law abiding individuals. Muslims terrorists exist. Governments to exploit Muslim terrorists for their own political ends
[b]British Muslims need to ask themselves how they have come to a point where their sons are blowing themselves up as well as their fellow citizens. [/b]
its shocking to me to see ourselves being sucked into this thing. for God's sake just take a breather and think to yourself it seems that every Muslim in Britain is a terrorist. Now come on wake up. after years and years of peace what would possess random Muslims living in England to suddenly become terrorists - they have nothing to gain only to lose
on the other hand the media and gov hype about alqaeeda yes well could appeal to disaffected youth
but as time goes on it seems anybody including the government can do what they like and blame all on Muslim terrorists but of course we all know this so why waste breath defending the muslim position its all too disgusting and ridiculous we should have enough guts to just say 'yes its very bad but go and find who did it we have no apologies to make'
salaam
irfan, have u landed a job with the BBC, or the MCB or the govt?
coming out with all Muslims are not law abiding, Muslim terrorists exists, Muslim scholars are brainwashing youngsters....
come on irfan!
Muslims are just like any other community, u have the good and the bad...
99.9% of Muslims in UK are good and they are contributing heavily to the British way of life. All of a sudden Muslims have to do more, all of a sudden our Imams ar epreaching hate, all of a sudden our community has failed........wats a lot of rubbish. Just like any community we have postive factors, negative factors etc....
the media, scum like The Sun, some television journalists etc are inciting hjatred against Muslims...and its not on.
wasalaam
You'r not hearing what I'm saying.
I'm not saying all Muslims are terrorists. No way.
I am saying that there are Muslims who are also terrorists.
If you are thinking that there are no Muslim terrorists, you are obviously wrong.
I am saying that bin Laden's target audience is Muslims.
Ofcourse not all Muslims follow or support or admire bin Laden, but there are some that do.
I did not say Muslims scholars are brainwashing youngsters.
I said extremist Muslim clerics (ie Abu Hamza, Omar Bakri, Abu Qatada et al) preach to Muslims.
As a result of extremist clerics preaching to Muslims, there are some Muslims who believe these extremist clerics.
Ofcourse the majority of Muslims in this country and around the world reject the preachings of these extremist clerics.
There is no getting away from the fact that extremist Muslim clerics influence some young Muslims.
The vast majority of Muslims in this country are law-abiding citizens.
That does not mean that every single Muslim is a law-abiding citizen.
Many Muslims contribute positively to British society.
We have our positives and our negatives, just like any other community.
But there are no members of other communities blowing themselves up and their fellow citizens.
[b]
British Muslims are a community which is not under occupation.
British Muslims are a community which is not being oppressed.
British Muslims are a community which is free to practice its religion.
But this is a community where certain of its members have seen it fit to blow themselves up and their fellow citizens. [/b]
For this to have happened we must have done something wrong somewhere along the line.
[i]This community has failed those individuals who saw it fit to blow themselves up.[/i]
All muslims are like one body, not just british muslims.
In answer to your question, while british muslims are not oppressed, our brethren abroad are!
While british muslims are not occupied, our brethren abroad ARE by our own gov!
And there are terrorists in other societies aswell, just currently we have the spotlight on us.
Yes there are problems in our communities, but they are not as big as you think. 4/5 (ok, there are more currently rotting) bad apples in almost 2 million people? Now thats shocking is it?
Now the problems will be propagated farther, faster because we are under the spotlight, and some will feel like virtual prisoners in their own homes! (those NOT under house arrest).
Besides when other communities do something, it blamed on the individuals, but when muslims do the same thing, the word muslim is always applied at the start, so the problem does seem bigger.
What has surprised me is it was suicide attacks though. But I always expected something happen, and alot sooner than it did.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Yeh but why are we defining these terrorists as being MUSLIM terrorists? They don't follow the real path of Islam-is it right for us to call them muslims?
Why can't everyone just refer to them as terrorists. Nothing more. Why is it essential for everyone to name them by religion?
If you really want to distinguish these terrorists from other terrorists then why don't we just refer to them by their group... Al Qaeda?
True
After all its IRA, not catholic IRA
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
It is highly likely that these bombers were all british born.
Al Qaeda must be a really charismatic group to get British born muslims to give up their lifestyles in Britain to fight in their so called "Jihad", to get them to think that what they are doing is ok and is the way ithey are meant to act.
They really know how to delude people and bring them into what they think is Islam.
Just think that if this group had the correct beliefs and followed true Islam, so many muslims would be on the right path and hence our ummah will be in a better position.
Our brethren abroad are being oppressed and occupied. Yes. That does not mean we start blowing ourselves up in this country.
There are alot more productive and useful methods we can employ to help and liberate our brothers.
If you want to physically engage in war using guns and bombs and what not, then do it where our brothers and sisters are being oppressed. Not here.
Yes there are terrorists in other societies. These societies need to deal with the issues that create these terrorists. We need to deal with the issues that create terrorists in our society.
Man. Wake up. These are no longer 'bad apples'. It's gone way passed that.
This community has produced people who have blown themselves up. Blown themselves up! Killed themselves! Killed! And killed others! Others who have not oppressed any of our brethren abroad or in this country!
We should not be pressured into being prisoners in our own homes. We should be trying to help the brethren under occupation and oppression, we should help the brethren on our doorsteps who feel the need to blow themselves up.
We should not treat this as a passing phase. We should not think this will soon pass over and everything will be back to normal.
We get a bad rep in the media. Yes. I'm not disagreeing with you on that.
But there are no members of other British communities who have blown themselves up and others in the process. Out of all British communities, this is a problem exclusive to Muslims.
These suicide bombings should have surprised, shocked and appalled all of us.
Yes there are problems with labelling and wording when disscussing terrorism and religion and politics.
Me and 100 have disscussed this a bit on this thread already.
Not all Muslims are terrorists. Not all terrorists are Muslims. Yes.
But there is no getting away from the fact that there are Muslims who are terrorists.
They don't follow the true path of Islam, but at the end of the day they believe in Allah, and they believe in the Prophets, and they believe in Prophet Muhammed SAW as the last prophet. They consider themselves Muslims. They claim to do what they do because they are Muslims. They use Islamic symbols and phrases. These people are not encouraging Christians, Jews and Hindus to join them. They are appealing to Muslims to join them.
Ofcourse the vast majority of Muslims reject these terrorists. But the concept of excommunication is not a tradition in Islam. It is not for us to say that someone who calls themselves a Muslim is not a Muslim because of their actions.
It would be OK to call these people just terrorists, and not Muslim terrorists. But we cannot deny that these people call themselves Muslims.
I've heard Lord Nazir speak on this issue twice since the news that the bombers were British-Pakistanis. I'll paraphrase what he said plus my own opinions.
He says that some young British Pakistanis do not feel an affinity to Pakistan or to Britain. They are called Pakis in Britain and valaytees in Pakistan. Therefore they don't feel part of one or the other. In this identity crisis they only have Islam. They can call themsleves Muslims and not be rejected.
But the Islam taght in British Pakistani mosques is taught in Urdu. The imams speak Urdu. The Islamic speeches are in Urdu. Many young British Pakistanis know little Urdu.
For some this void is filled by English-speaking Arab dissidents. People like Omar Bakri etc talk in English about Islam and at length. HT and Al-Muhajiroon are led by Arabs. Their literature is in English.
The Arabs talk about politics. Young British Pakistanis listen. The only politics young British Pakistanis get from their parents is that 'Hindus and Sikhs are dirt dog kaffirs because of what they do in Kashmir'. The Arabs have a rich and eventful political history. Educated British Pakistanis apply the political and social philosophies that they have learnt in this country to Arab politics. Young educated British Pakistanis find a connection with these Arab speakers (eg Omar Bakri).
HT and Al-M talk of Pakistan as a corrupt and decadent society which needs to embrace 'real' (Salafi) Islam and get rid of its Hindu cultural practices. Young British Pakistanis are further withdrawn from feeling affinity to Pakistan.
Extremist groups such as HT, Al-M encourage hatred for the West. They encourage terrorism. They justify suicide attacks. As a result there is a constituency which finds a connection with Al Qaeda ideology and finds global leadership in Osama bin Laden.
Ofcourse this does not apply to all young British Pakistanis. Many couldn't care less about religion. There are many who have embraced the Islam of their parents. There are many who proudly call themselves British and Muslim. There are many who find a connection with Pakistani culture.
okay..
so there were 4 suicide bombers.. hmm
now, why would a guy have a timed bomb.. and wait for it to go off?
its just bullshitt, Men with 8-month old babies do NOT commit suicide for any reason whatsoever.
The military, including a bomb squad, carried out the controlled explosion at the row house at 11:30 a.m. so detectives could enter the home in Burley, a neighborhood where public signs in storefronts and even a Church of England community center are printed in English and Arabic...
The military uses "military" explosives on the suspect's property, thereby contaminating the entire crime scene with the very same explosives that were apparently used in the bombings?!
wtf?
Now lets put everything we've learned together into a proper timeline of who knew what and when using the original, more detailed timeline. The individual bombings are in red while compiled information is in green.
[color=green]Sometime that morning, the Brits were conducting terror attack drills at/near bombing sites.
8:43am: Mossad office in London alerted to a pending terror strike 6 minutes before first explosion. [/color]
[color=red]8:49am: there was a report of an incident on the train line. [/color]
[color=green]Sometime between 8:43am 9:15am, Netanyahu was warned. It isn't clear when he was told, but someone tipped him off not to go out due to a possible terrorist attack. He (and the Israeli Embasssy) originally said that it was Scotland Yard who called in the warning, but the Brits deny this. However, the Mossad office got a warning (not telling where from, just saying "they").
9:15am: the media reported emergency services were called into action.
9:24am: Police still unsure what happened, say it may have been a train accident or electrical issue. [/color]
[color=red]9:33am: reports of another incident. [/color]
[color=green]
9:40am: Police say there have been power surge incidents.
10:02am: Scotland Yard announces they are dealing with a 'major incident.' [/color]
[color=red]10:14am: bus is reported to have exploded. This is the first real sign that it's a terrorist attack.
10:23am: Another bus is reported to have exploded. [/color]
[color=green]
10:25am: Tony Blair and company are still unsure about terrorist attack.
So if Mossad knew 6 minutes prior to the first bombing that means by 10:25am, while Tony Blair wasn't even sure, the Israeli's had knowledge for about 40 minutes. What's worse is they didn't bother to call anyone else, such as the London police, to give warning. This completely negates them from saying that this is a British matter that Israel shouldn't be involved in.[/color]
[b][i]Round and round the Ka'bah,
Like a good Sahabah,
One step, Two step,
All the way to jannah[/i][/b]
no british muslims need to ask themselves.. am i really that stupid for believing lies that arnt even told well..??
irfan, ur tone is very offensive for Muslims.. i feel ashamed that muslims have started placing judgements without having given the so called evidence any thought..
Muslims shud NOT apologise for the london bombings, its us Muslims who shud be given an apology for being scapegoated..
and dont gimme all dat bullshitt about u dnt mean 'all muslims are terrorist', dat aint da point, da point is who was behind the london bombings..
now, think logically.. what evidences do u have against the 4 Muslim bombers..
if uve got any.. then ill change my tone to.. okay.. yes they were muslims.. Muslims in britain need to be doing more to stop these boys..
but if u aint got anything.. i'll tell u to stfu.
[b][i]Round and round the Ka'bah,
Like a good Sahabah,
One step, Two step,
All the way to jannah[/i][/b]
So you think some non-Muslims did the attack and the police and the gov are trying to pin the blame on Muslims.
Believe me, someone else doesn't need to do an attack and blame it on Muslims. There are Muslims out there who are inspired by OBL and co. to do terrorism.
If the gov wants there to be a terrorist attack all it has to do is turn a blind eye to reports of a possible attack and then let the attack take place. The gov then uses the fear and panic caused by the attack to pass repressive laws etc.
OBL and co. are not inciting governments to attack their own people. OBL and co. are inciting Muslims to terrorism. We as Muslims need to cancel out bin Laden's message.
We as Muslims need to make sure that our brothers do not engage in terrorism. We need to ensure that we and our brothers engage in halaal Jihad.
We need to ensure that we don't allow any extremism to breed in our society so that our enemies cannot gain advantage over us by exploiting the extremists in our midst.
do not be speculating on what i am thinking..
im not gna believe u, as so far the stuff u have been writing has an 'muslims are evil' undertone.
so where is ur evidence irfan that it was Muslims?
Without the cameras working on the bus, how do they know this was the bomber? The bombs were set off by timers, so how can they now this man was not just standing in the wrong place at the wrong time?
have u read a statement from the boys families?
do u know what they were really doing in London..
u don't, but u wanna judge.. because of the 'possibilty' it could have been Muslims.. shame on u.
[b][i]Round and round the Ka'bah,
Like a good Sahabah,
One step, Two step,
All the way to jannah[/i][/b]
I was forced to recognise and state categorically that not all Muslims are terrorists because when I said 'there are Muslims who are terrorists' some thought I was saying all Muslims are terrorists.
WTF should I have had to clarify myself.
if these suspects actually did carry out the attacks then why would they leave their personal documents at or near the crime scene???? doesnt make sense to me!
the mistake that ur making is that uve already assumed it was Muslims..
wtf are u telling Muslims to watch their kids incase theyre suicide bombers for?
thats very rude boy.. so come on.. wheres the evidence?
what do u have.. show me da shhhmoking gun...
[b][i]Round and round the Ka'bah,
Like a good Sahabah,
One step, Two step,
All the way to jannah[/i][/b]
I don't know what you're smoking, khan, but there were British suicide bombers in Israel and America and others have been caught, so your making light of Irfan's appeals is off-base either way.
Why would I suggest that Muslims are evil?
I am Muslim myself. (I can't believe I'm having to clarify this.)
Ok I'm going off what the cops are saying.
I am unable to carry out my own forensic investigation of the crime scene.
Strange how this isn't making international headlines
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/4679205.stm
Yes, although you can hardly be surprised at the interest in London suicide bombs.
No I'm not suprised.
Salam
Pakis did it.
Four British born men from Leeds are prime suspects in last Thrusday's attacks in London.
We still don't know who was behind these men. Who supplied them with military explosives ? Who trained them ?
President of Pakistan General Musharraf perhaps ?
Maybe it was on of former officers in Saddam's regime ?
We will know very soon.
Omrow
ok everyone is entitled to their own opinion is there any need for swearin??? i think not, calm down boys!!!!
off topic i knw but you guys are scarin me with all this swearin
Im sorry people but the number just dont add up.
There's way too many irregularaties to ignore.
The bombings have been "claimed" to be the work of a faction Al'Qaeda, but unless i've missed something I haven't seen anything in the form of evidence.
As for these identification documents just happen to find at the scene, are you telling me that the only way they could have been there is bcoz they were the terrorists that were involved?
Please... there must be a dozen reasons why they were found there and each is as likely as the rest.
The explosives used were said to be "not home made" therefore we can only interpretate that as military hardware. As for how they came into the hands of the youngsters is unknown.
The other point i want to make is that you have to realise no ordinary british muslim would blow themself up of their own accord. They must have had some sort of brainwashing. Extrmists dont just walk up to people in the streets and say join me in blowing up london, it doesnt work that way.
Current speculation leads authorities to believe that these boys must have met some1 whilst they were abroad doing charity work, who twisted them into doing what they did.
In incidents such as this its interesting to see who gained what from this and who losed something from this.
Back in BLACK
It still does not add up.
My questions I raised earlier are still inanswered, along with many others.
Why were there belongings linking the same individual to two separate bombing sites?
Did he blow himself up, decide that is not enough, and blow himself up again?
Irfan I do understand your point that we must face reality. but you are not questioning the 'reality' that is being presented. It is too inconsistent, and far too convenient.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
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