Reviews of Cousin Marriages

Seraphim —

Calls for reviews of cousin marriages

10/ 2/2008

A CABINET minister today backed calls for a review of the high numbers of birth defects among children from marriages between first cousins in Britain's Asian communities.

Chief Whip Geoff Hoon said there was a "particular problem" that needed expert analysis after a fellow minister warned the issue was not being addressed.

Phil Woolas said that while health workers were well aware of the heightened risk of genetic problems, cultural sensitivities made the issue difficult to raise.

The environment minister, who represents ethnically-diverse Oldham East and Saddleworth, said: "Part of the risk, I am told by the health service, is first-cousin marriages.

"If you are supportive of the Asian community then you have a duty to raise this issue.

"Awareness does need to be raised but we are very aware of the sensitivities," he added, pointing out that many of the people involved were the products of such marriages.

The comments come at a sensitive time for community relations following the Archbishop of Canterbury's controversial comments about accommodating aspects of sharia law in Britain.

Traditions

But Mr Woolas insisted that the marriages - which are legal in the UK - were a cultural, not a religious, issue based in the traditions of rural parts of Pakistan.

Defending his colleague, Mr Hoon told Sky News' Sunday Live: "He was commenting on a particular problem about cousins marrying first cousins.

"It is important that we look at that in terms of scientific expertise and the extent to which it is actually causing problems," he told Sky News' Sunday Live.

"But it obviously is a very sensitive matter and no one, no one, would suggest this is a problem for the wider Muslim community.

"I am confident that what he has said will have been said with sensitivity and with proper regard to his Muslim constituents and Muslims right across the United Kingdom."

Disorders

The call for action was supported by Labour MP Ann Cryer who first raised the issue more than two years ago after research showed British Pakistanis were 13 times more likely to have children with recessive disorders than the general population.

Research for BBC2's Newsnight in November 2005 showed British Pakistanis accounted for 3.4% of all births but have 30% of all British children with recessive disorders.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/1035923_calls_for_reviews_of_cousin_marriages

Main arguement seems to be genetic defects.

Personally i just think its ikky.

Forum
General

Courage — Thu, 1 May 2008 - 16:43

mean if the woman converted to Islam...by all means it would be a beautiful match...but she hasn't and the kids are going to grow up very confused aout who they are...

That's what me and Yaqub have been trying to say. Your race or ehtnicity shouldn't matter, only compatibility and virtue.

Naz — Fri, 2 May 2008 - 12:06

Courage

mean if the woman converted to Islam...by all means it would be a beautiful match...but she hasn't and the kids are going to grow up very confused aout who they are...

That's what me and Yaqub have been trying to say. Your race or ehtnicity shouldn't matter, only compatibility and virtue.

It shouldnt but ppl still make a big deal about it. The amount of Pakistani Muslims that bang on about caste it makes you wanna strangle them. Some of the Prophets ﷺ wives were from different cultures and tribes and the reason he married these women is to bring ppl closer together. To show the world we are one ummah and equal. However, in this day and age because ppl practice more culture then religion a marriage between two ppl from completely different backgrounds will never work out. Too many issues and too many ppl interfering.

Naz — Fri, 2 May 2008 - 12:11

love to live but living to die

Ya'qub
And I also find some of the ways you talk about 'white women's behaviour' very racist and offensive. My mum is a white, non-Muslim woman and she behaves a lot better, more modestly and more politely than 90% of young Muslim girls I've seen (yes, I mean 90%).

thats something that i've observed as well!

n bro can i ask u y u took that comment offensive?

My thoughts exactly. He takes a siuation and labels it as racism for some reason.

Seraphim — Fri, 2 May 2008 - 12:53

Naz

love to live but living to die
Ya'qub
And I also find some of the ways you talk about 'white women's behaviour' very racist and offensive. My mum is a white, non-Muslim woman and she behaves a lot better, more modestly and more politely than 90% of young Muslim girls I've seen (yes, I mean 90%).

thats something that i've observed as well!

n bro can i ask u y u took that comment offensive?

My thoughts exactly. He takes a siuation and labels it as racism for some reason.

Thats becoz it is.

Ya'qub — Fri, 2 May 2008 - 23:44

I didn't say the situation was racist, I meant that the way 'white behaviour' is described is racist:

her mum on the other hand still behaves like a white woman...she drinks, wears tiny clothes (if any at all), and husband is okay with it!

when that girl grows up shes going to go out there and c the world herself...shes going to look at mummy n daddys lifestyle and you don't think she's going to copy...

you don't think she's going to marry a white guy...coz her daddy married a white woman ...

I found that offensive.

Naz — Sat, 3 May 2008 - 22:42

Seraphim

Naz
love to live but living to die
Ya'qub
And I also find some of the ways you talk about 'white women's behaviour' very racist and offensive. My mum is a white, non-Muslim woman and she behaves a lot better, more modestly and more politely than 90% of young Muslim girls I've seen (yes, I mean 90%).

thats something that i've observed as well!

n bro can i ask u y u took that comment offensive?

My thoughts exactly. He takes a siuation and labels it as racism for some reason.

Thats becoz it is.

No its not. She just made the assumption that ALL white women have no sharam (shame) and behave/dress inappropriately. She should have incorporated the word SOME white women.... (which i think thats what she meant but didnt say).

Stranger999but atleast your kids wont grown up confused about who they are..
what their background is...

Reminds me of a poem i studied back at GCSE.

Presents from my Aunts in Pakistan by Moniza Alvi

They sent me a salwar kameez
peacock-blue,
and another
glistening like an orange split open,
embossed slippers, gold and black
points curling.
Candy-striped glass bangles
snapped, drew blood.
Like at school, fashions changed
in Pakistan -
the salwar bottoms were broad and stiff,
then narrow.
My aunts chose an apple-green sari,
silver-bordered
for my teens.

I tried each satin-silken top -
was alien in the sitting-room.
I could never be as lovely
as those clothes -
I longed
for denim and corduroy.
My costume clung to me
and I was aflame,
I couldn't rise up out of its fire,
half-English,
unlike Aunt Jamila.

I wanted my parents' camel-skin lamp -
switching it on in my bedroom,
to consider the cruelty
and the transformation
from camel to shade,
marvel at the colours
like stained glass.

My mother cherished her jewellery -
Indian gold, dangling, filigree,
But it was stolen from our car.
The presents were radiant in my wardrobe.
My aunts requested cardigans
from Marks and Spencers.

My salwar kameez
didn't impress the schoolfriend
who sat on my bed, asked to see
my weekend clothes.
But often I admired the mirror-work,
tried to glimpse myself
in the miniature
glass circles, recall the story
how the three of us
sailed to England.
Prickly heat had me screaming on the way.
I ended up in a cot
In my English grandmother's dining-room,
found myself alone,
playing with a tin-boat.

I pictured my birthplace
from fifties' photographs.
When I was older
there was conflict, a fractured land
throbbing through newsprint.
Sometimes I saw Lahore -
my aunts in shaded rooms,
screened from male visitors,
sorting presents,
wrapping them in tissue.

Or there were beggars, sweeper-girls
and I was there -
of no fixed nationality,
staring through fretwork
at the Shalimar Gardens.

Courage — Tue, 6 May 2008 - 09:17

love to live but living to die

Courage
mean if the woman converted to Islam...by all means it would be a beautiful match...but she hasn't and the kids are going to grow up very confused aout who they are...

That's what me and Yaqub have been trying to say. Your race or ehtnicity shouldn't matter, only compatibility and virtue.

Can u try to get this into a pure pakistani person's head... coz like me parents they like to put family n culture first! and if i say something then mum tells me to shut up n dad changes the subject! followed by a boring lecture-to-remind-me-of-who-i-am! *sigh* nyways... i believe this trend can be broken... we jus need open-minded ppl to communicate wiv our elders!

Good question. You just have to be firm but respectful. Let them know that you don't believe in the caste system because you're Muslim, and neither should they! This social status mind set isn't helpful and there's more to life and marriage than that.
And a bit of dua can't hurt.

Courage — Tue, 6 May 2008 - 09:21

Naz wrote

No its not. She just made the assumption that ALL white women have no sharam (shame) and behave/dress inappropriately. She should have incorporated the word SOME white women.... (which i think thats what she meant but didnt say).

That is called being racist. Stereotyping is on the brink of racism. Stranger used that example to back her point, which basically assumes that there's a hint of stereotyping. Now I'm not saying that was deliberate! Or Stranger is the Eastern version of the BNP!

Naz — Wed, 7 May 2008 - 17:57

^^^ White ppl dont have arranged marriages therefore they have to get off thier own back and find themselves a partner. Some white women believe that the only way they can pull a bloke is by walking around wearing very little clothes. It works, they get the attention from the blokes. It is generally the cultural norm in Britain to go out on Friday night and get pissed and then wake up with their head in the toilet. Its what they call "having a good time". Im not saying ALL white women do this but the majoirity(esp the young ones) do. Its not racism, its the truth!

big bro — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 - 10:50

I PERSONALLY THINK IT'S DISGUSTING THAT SOMEONE WOULD MARRY THEIR COUSIN. YOU PROBALLY GROW UP WITH YOUR COUSIN AND THEN END UP MARRYING. THATS LIKE MARRYING YOUR BROTHER OR SISTER. LIKE I SAID BEFORE THIS IS WHAT I THINK.

BM — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 - 11:33

How can you say that something is disgusting when the shariah has allowed it.........I think you need to assess your thoughts and aqida before posting such obscenities on here as some people not so well acquainted with Islam may become misdirected........as a consquence of ur incorrect opinion !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Naz — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 - 19:24

I think its possible to have a personal opinion as long as it dont conflict with Islam. So the fact that Big bro finds cousin marriages disgusting isnt going against Islam, its just his view. Some ppl are a bit disturbed by how some ppl can marry their cousins while others are ok with it.

Seraphim — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 - 20:12

big broI PERSONALLY THINK IT'S DISGUSTING THAT SOMEONE WOULD MARRY THEIR COUSIN. YOU PROBALLY GROW UP WITH YOUR COUSIN AND THEN END UP MARRYING. THATS LIKE MARRYING YOUR BROTHER OR SISTER. LIKE I SAID BEFORE THIS IS WHAT I THINK.

Just out of curiousity we're you parents related? (im assuming your the same big bro as before and thus of the Pakistani-decent).

Noor — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 - 21:09

the Prophet ﷺ was married to his cousin Zaynab bint Jahsh (ra), Ali (ra) was married to Fatimah (ra), they were also cousins.

If the Prophet (saw), the jewel of creation didn't find it disgusting, if the queen of jannah didn't find it disgusting then how can you possibly find it disgusting?

Seraphim — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 - 22:02

Noorthe Prophet ﷺ was married to his cousin Zaynab bint Jahsh (ra), Ali (ra) was married to Fatimah (ra), they were also cousins.

If the Prophet (saw), the jewel of creation didn't find it disgusting, if the queen of jannah didn't find it disgusting then how can you possibly find it disgusting?

Bcoz he is neither a jewel nor a queen (or atleast i hope not).

Courage — Wed, 11 Jun 2008 - 09:31

Noorthe Prophet ﷺ was married to his cousin Zaynab bint Jahsh (ra), Ali (ra) was married to Fatimah (ra), they were also cousins.

If the Prophet (saw), the jewel of creation didn't find it disgusting, if the queen of jannah didn't find it disgusting then how can you possibly find it disgusting?

Ali and Fatima (ra) weren't cousins. Ali and the Prophet (pbuh) were cousins, his name was Ali bin Abi/Abu Talib.