I remember listening to a talk of Hamza Yusuf , he stated that the things that will trouble Islam the most is Mass Communication. I have to agree with this as this is one of the main reasons that islam is being portrayed in such a bad light. Hamza explain in the talk that people now been sold the hollywood dream and bollywood, America culture. These things have been glamourised so much that consumerism have been sold too the masses and this is what they look up too We live in a world that wants too be entertain all the time.

This has open up a new world to people and praying the 5 prayers have now become such a big deal and too many a mudane act. It all about the Fast Life. The Communication Network has boosted mans ego and it something that is hard to fight against, because too many this ain't a problem, it someting that should be embrace. But people do it without realising the hidden agenda behind it. Because these people can make what is [b]right look wrong[/b] and what [b]wrong look right,[/b] it all in the way they package the message.

But the question you have ask these people who critise islam, Is society actually getting better for the masses. Because for where I standing the answer is no. Because the Strong oppress the Weak and the Rich oppress the Poor. Islam hasn't outdated, it just that man has become more weaker due to dunya and has fail to realise that they digging themselves a big hole, which soon it won't be able to climb out of, even if it wants too.

Salaam

Nice idea, this could be a bookmarked thread where people can be forwarded to for some answers to all thier agonising misconceptions.

I'll have a stab at some but feel free to correct me.

How can we follow a book 1400 years old?

Well on its aged basis alone. We breathe. people have been doing that for more than 1400 years. The celestial satalites. Sailors have been following them for more than 1400 years. Islamic extremists. The media has been following them for what seems like 1400 years. Joke, but you get the picture.

So following something aged isn't a new thing but what about the other factors. Well in terms of content its infallible, "if it ain't broke don't fix it", the words of Allah SWT are enduring beyond time. Scientists and scholars are learning even today of the miracles and signs in the Quraan. There is an ocean of wonder in the pages of the Quraan. The modernisers may call for it to be updated but the criminality of sects who deviate from and misinterpret the Quraan shows that it needs no modernising.

Also the question contains part of the answer:

"TheRevivalEditor" wrote:

a book 1400 years old

That is precisely what we believe, that the book is 1400 years old and unchanged over that period, thus it is as flawless as it was originally.

On another question:

"TheRevivalEditor" wrote:

why cant islam deal with homosexuality?

You answered it with this:

"TheRevivalEditor" wrote:

why is islam homophobic?

NB: you've probably all had the email about the Americans trying to propogate their own version of the Quraan, entitled Al Furqan, Very depressing.

"Dawud" wrote:

NB: you've probably all had the email about the Americans trying to propogate their own version of the Quraan, entitled Al Furqan, Very depressing.

eh?

I don't know if anyone else noticed but all religion is "out of date"

Especially Islam and Christianity.

This attack has been used against Christianity all through the 20th century, and had a lot to do with the birth of credit card christianity.

Basically because liberals hate religion.

Compare your religion to what is "in date" hyper sexuality, vulgarity, selfish individuality, greed, excess, atheism et cetera et cetera et cetera those are the only things "out of date" religions are out of date on.

There is also increased tolerance (of course tolerance based on liberal definitions) in todays world and greater charity - but those things are not at odds with "out of date religions"

It's a trick - a rigged game, because you either have to take a big gulp of modernity with no riders attached - selfish individuality as well as greater tolerance - or be "out of date"

Liberals have always feared religion, they don't buy this "God" idea and have a negative image of religion because of all the wars and suffering that was caused by people in the name of religion.

They have a tarnished image of religion and they are trying to destroy it.

So they create their own definitions of "tolerance" to specifically include groups that religions proscribe - like homosexuals.

And since they seem to control the direction of modernity it is their definition there too.

So it's rather pointless to even debate them on the subject, it's a rigged game and you will find yourself either admitting that you are not modern according to their definition - or you will have to change your religion to fit their definition.

Lose lose proposition.

I look at it from another angle.

Islam has ALWAYS been out of date by the literal meaning. Lterally according to my understanding does not mean it is too old, it can mean it is also ahead of its time.

When Islam came to the Peninsula Arab it was out of date. It was a totally new way of thinking, a new way of life, it didnt fit with what previously arab life was, it didnt fit with the debauchery of roman civilisation or immorality in persian empire. Essentially Islam is always gonna be out of date because it demands te highest qualities in man, the qualities of selflessness, truth, generosity etc and as these states are not attained except without years of sacrifice islam will seem out of date because its ideals always push for something better than we already have.

In that case I dont think islam is out of date.

Another way of thinking is that people in every age think they are the modern people. In 19th century people thought they are the modern ones, in 15th century they thought They were the mdoern ones. Effectively every generation sees itself as the modern one but in my opinion thats not helpful. During the 15th century Islam could have seemed out of date because it came 1000 years back, in this century it may seem out of date because it came 1400 years back. In a few generations we will be history and people will argue that the amount of islam we implemented was ok for 21st century but its not practical for the 23rd century.

In this light Islam is standard throughout ages and adhereing to it in entirety is the correct path. If that were not the case then we could slowly discard every aspect of religion, oh collective salah was obligation in beginning when people didnt have anything muc else to do, but now we have international commerce and global banking and everything, cant expect a whole society to stop everything now and bow down in direction of Makkah 5 times every day. Or they might argue that keeping a full beard was a social norm a few centuries back, but the beard is not in with the times because we are in the modern times. In my view even the people in 15th century who wanted to shave would have said that keeping beard was ok a few generations ago but its not fitting with out modern times, just as people today may say that the beard was ok a few generatinos ago in pakistan/india/bangladesh but it doesnt fit with our times.

Islam is truth and truth is immutable.

yep too tru Med

to follow on people talk about modern as if it was a good thing modern is really backward to me the more morality we lose it seems the more modern we are

saying Islam is out of date is like saying God is out of date and we all know even the atheists hotly debate him 24/7 so he is decidedly always the hot topic

Islam isn't out of date.

Muslims are out of date.

:?:

Islam does deal with homosexuality.

It declares it an abomination. It is explicitly haraam.

People often confuse the terms modern and western.

Modernity is to do with times and technology etc, and westernism is to do with changing ideals.

If you change your ideals to something not Islamic, ofcourse you will run into problems.

Another issue I have with modernity.

I agree totally that Islam is NOT AGAINST modernity. But that depends on what my definition of modernity. If modernity is new sewage systems, new technologies like phones and computers, new weapons, new sources of heating and lighting, new sources of technolgoy, new ways of farming, new was of travel then Islam is in no way conflicting with these modernities.

However, if modernity is clubbing and pubbing, if modernity is gambling, if modernity is establishing trade laws which benefit the rich and exploit the poor, if modernity is music being everywhere, if modernity is viewing naked pictures in the name of art, if modernity is forgetting your parents, and if modernity is fulfilling your every ambition and desire then I reject all such modernity and in my view Islam rejects these things.

In my view the above second category of modernity is not modernity but is rather a regression of people back to the AGE OF IGNORANCE. People think that by getting drunk, dancing, clubbing, having fancy corporations which are unfairly advantaged by trade laws which disregard the poor, exploiting child labour etc they are being modern I say that this is ALL what happened before islam in the darkness of ignorance. Women were exploited, the weak were oppressed by the rich, the alcohol was consumed, the people loved the world and a modern term which refers to love of wrld is CONSUMERISM, people fulfilled their base desires ALL in the times of ignorance. So when people do these things in THEIR minds they think they being modern, but if we look objectively they are returning to an old fashion, the old system before the light of Islam.

"Medievalist" wrote:

Another issue I have with modernity.

I agree totally that Islam is NOT AGAINST modernity. But that depends on what my definition of modernity. If modernity is new sewage systems, new technologies like phones and computers, new weapons, new sources of heating and lighting, new sources of technolgoy, new ways of farming, new was of travel then Islam is in no way conflicting with these modernities.

Maybe you should be more critical of new technologies. Look at the damage new types of weapons have done all over the world. Even after wars are over people still die because of unexploded munitions, NBC weapons and landmines.

Likewise look at the damage technology is doing to the environment.

Plus there's the whole issue of reliance. If you're totally reliant on technology does that make you more or less powerful?

I dont think islam is out-of-date its ppl's thinkin that has been clouded with rubbish that has led them to think islam is backwards, what a joke! If people learn to take islam as a whole and not bits here and there then they will learn that livin a life as a true muslim is simple and most fulfilling and can be used for anytime, the past the present and the future.

rom 'Ed's post I can see Islam HAS dealt with all those issues.

However they are not to 'western ideals'.

If we have the wrong basis of comparision, we will find fault with everything.

no it isnt!!

Islam is for all times and for all people and for everything!!!

it provides answers to all problems we face individually and collectively

some Muslims may be the problem, Islam is a way of life perfected by our beloved Nabi (SAW) and sent from Allah SWT

try this.......think of society today, and if we were to implement TRUE Islamic teachings, everything would logically click in place and make sense. jus for 1 day if Islam ruled the world...the world would be perfect!!

people are the problem tho, which is why the world isnt perfect, theres no Islam governing states....just dodgy people with hidden agendas

Salam

True Islam is way ahead of its time.

It is so modern that most people cannot see how advance it is.

Islam is in the year 2082, while the so called "modern world" is still back in 1382.

How can God Almighty be stuck in the past ? He is the Future.

True teachings of Moses, David, Buddah, Jesus, Mohammad are Eternal.

We have to keep seperate the backward attitude of muslims, and the forward nature of the religion of God.

Muslims are still living in the middle ages. This is because they follow a wrong version of Islam, a version so perverted that even the Prime Minister recognised it as an "Ideology of Evil". He said he admires the original Islam of peace, kindness and justice.

It is true to say that muslims are out of time.

It is correct to say that, on the whole, Muslims are out of date. Just like the food, when it goes out of date, Muslims have also gone bad. Today they stink.

It is out of this stink that extremists and terrorists are born. Just as germs and diseases emerge from food that goes bad.

There is nothing wrong with food. It is fault of people who failed to preserve its freshness.

Omrow

"Omrow" wrote:

It is true to say that muslims are out of time.

It is correct to say that, on the whole, Muslims are out of date. Just like the food, when it goes out of date, Muslims have also gone bad. Today they stink.

It is out of this stink that extremists and terrorists are born. Just as germs and diseases emerge from food that goes bad.

There is nothing wrong with food. It is fault of people who failed to preserve its freshness.

i agree with u

many muslims are responsible for making Islam out of date

but islam aint out od date

"Darth Hayder" wrote:

jus for 1 day if Islam ruled the world...the world would be perfect!!

I dont agree. See in my view Islam is perfect but this world isnt. If Islam ruled the world it wouldnt mean that everything is perfect because the very nature of this world is deception. I think even if a country implemeneted islam fully today that country would not necessarily be a utopia. This is because people today like Islam in books, but try bringing it into action and most people run a mile.

Keep it in the books and we can have millions of followers, bring it into amal and the followers flee like rats from a sinking ship. well thats my view.

Exactly Med, it's a people problem not a Islamic problem. People have forgotton the sunnah of our prophet(saas) as you (or someone) mentioned today people pick and choose Islam, if it goes against there status or ideal then they will omit that and if it is for enjoyment then they will follow it. In the Quran allah(swt) tells us how 313 muslims won the battle of Uhd against over a 1000 idolaters. People with a bit of deep thought and wisdom will think how they won the battle and it it all boils down to following the blessed example - our prophet (saas) to the very minute detail. They had true love for allah(swt) and our beloved prophet(saas).

I work with over 99% non-muslims and sitting and talking daily with them gives me an idea of how beautiful the way of Islam is...Modern is just a word which people think make them advanced....where is the 'Modern' new orleans today?

If todays society is modern then I think I'll stay with the 'out of date' Islam that some think it is.

This is an account of a Muslim woman who thinks Islam is incompatible with modern Western society.

Notice how very little of her problems are due to Islam but culture.

She has a problem with her parents' culture but here she gives an interview to the BBC about how Islam is the problem. :?

Quote:

I was born into a strict Pakistani Muslim background but, when I was 19, I decided to break away from my family.

I have three brothers and three sisters, and am the youngest in the family. I'm the only one born in England, in 1972, a few years after my parents had emigrated from Pakistan.

My upbringing was very strict, even by Asian community standards. My family were Sunnis and our faith and religion were largely influenced by - and intertwined with - our culture.

But it was backward, strict and suffocating. I was not allowed to go out on my own or even travel on buses.

I went to an all-girls school, although my father believed girls should not really be educated. Instead, all attention was focused on my brothers, who were expected to become doctors or lawyers.

My father preached one thing but did something else in practice. He said we needed to be pure and pious but was himself quite volatile. In contrast, my mother would never say boo to a goose.

The double standards really struck me. I always felt suppressed and suffocated by my father and brothers, who ran the household.

I was never able to accept or understand why my brothers were treated better than me. They were allowed to go out, mix with women, drive, go to college, have an opinion. I was allowed to do none of these things.

[b]Turning point[/b]

My parents chose a husband for me. I was engaged to him at 14 and forced into marriage at 17. when I was 19, I had had enough and I decided to run away from home. On 8 August 1991, I packed my bags and went.

I have since put myself through college and university and now consider myself as an independent career woman.

At the time, I left with hardly anything. And having lived in a sheltered, reclusive environment, I suddenly had to face up to real life for the first time.

I moved away from Leeds and lived in a hostel for a while. I worked at the same time as going to college where I studied for my GCSEs and then A levels. I later went on to read engineering at university.

When I was staying in the hostel, I met many other young Asian girls like me. It was tragic because they wanted to break away from their families but they kept on going home and getting into a total mess.

There must be lots of other men and women who want to break away from their culture. I now want to help other British Muslims who face a similar situation to me.

[b]Torn identity[/b]

I went through the most enormous life-changing experience. I must have been numb and in shock for about two years.

I became a totally different person, and found I was also quite spiritual and could relate to many religions at different levels.

Since leaving home I have not been in touch with my family. I would not be able to live my life the way I choose if my family have anything to do with it. I do not blame my parents for not seeing my point of view. They both come from a very different culture.

There is a cultural clash between my parents' generation and mine. The Eastern and Western cultures are so extremely different that it is difficult to find middle ground.

I believe my parents were so strict because they did not want to lose their identity, their Pakistani roots. But by doing this they did not allow me my own identity.

The danger of organised religion is that they all teach exclusivity and preach that theirs is the one true faith. To have one true faith means that all other faiths are wrong, hence the fighting we see around the world.

I believe the only way we will achieve peace and mutual respect on this planet is if we are all willing to change our beliefs.

I am not saying we should completely throw away our belief systems but what we need to do is let go of the beliefs that no longer work and keep the ones that do.

[url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4204820.stm]BBC[/url]

my point exactly

when people are exposed to the "extreme/incorrect" side of Islam

they turn to the "modern/liberal" side

typical behaviour

exactly

and I've seen that opression and beats at home is somtimes the reason why SOME muslim girls go wild later on in life