Young British Muslim Terrorists

Quote:
[size=18]Leaked No 10 dossier reveals Al-Qaeda’s British recruits[/size]

AL-QAEDA is secretly recruiting affluent, middle-class Muslims in British universities and colleges to carry out terrorist attacks in this country, leaked Whitehall documents reveal.
A network of “extremist recruiters” is circulating on campuses targeting people with “technical and professional qualifications”, particularly engineering and IT degrees.

Yesterday it emerged that last week’s London bombings were a sophisticated attack with all the devices detonating on the Underground within 50 seconds of each other. The police believe those behind the outrage may be home-grown British terrorists with no criminal backgrounds and possessing technical expertise.

A joint Home Office and Foreign Office dossier — Young Muslims and Extremism — prepared for the prime minister last year, said Britain might now be harbouring thousands of Al-Qaeda sympathisers.

Lord Stevens, the former Metropolitan police chief, revealed separately last night that up to 3,000 British-born or British-based people had passed through Osama Bin Laden’s training camps.

The Whitehall dossier, ordered by Tony Blair following last year’s train bombings in Madrid, says: “Extremists are known to target schools and colleges where young people may be very inquisitive but less challenging and more susceptible to extremist reasoning/ arguments.”

The confidential assessment, covering more than 100 pages of letters, papers and other documents, forms the basis of the government’s counter-terrorism strategy, codenamed Operation Contest.

[url= Times[/url]

The documents (PDF) 2004

Salam

Whoever wishes to harm this country, muslim or no muslim, should be severly punished.

Terrorists who murder innocent people have no religion. They are immoral. They have no value for human life. They are animals.

People who bombed London should be hanged. I think we should bring back the death penalty.

Omrow

"Omrow" wrote:
Whoever wishes to harm this country, muslim or no muslim, should be severly punished.

Aah! here come the thought police!

Don't you mean whoever TRIES to ATTACK this country?

harm can mean showing disunity by not supporting the war in Iraq.

It can be by widening the export/import gulf by importing your goods.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

"Admin" wrote:
"Omrow" wrote:
Whoever wishes to harm this country, muslim or no muslim, should be severly punished.

Aah! here come the thought police!

Don't you mean whoever TRIES to ATTACK this country?

harm can mean showing disunity by not supporting the war in Iraq.

It can be by widening the export/import gulf by importing your goods.

'Whoever wishes to harm this country'. Okay, people who are just wishing don't warrant hanging, but that's a strange point to make. Is it cool by you to wish to harm this country? lol

The disunity you speak of is not in itself at all the same as the harm Omrow refers to.

yes, its a pointless point.

However its better to stop sentiment at a point and actually see what it means.

Is it ok to wish to harm the UK? depends how. if you wish to harm it through terrorism AND go about fulfilling your wishes, it is definitely wrong.

However you wish harm in a moment of anger, no.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

It's a very pointless point. I maintain, no, I do not wish harm, even in a moment of anger. The be careful what you wish for thing.

"100" wrote:
It's a very pointless point. I maintain, no, I do not wish harm, even in a moment of anger. The be careful what you wish for thing.

Harm is too wide a term.

I have (i think) never wished the UK to be harmed. However when in a heated argument face to face I have ocasionally wished harm the the other person. Fist to face type. I am probably an angree person so that is not the norm.

Well back to original topic from which I deviated.

I do wish anyone planning any terrorist actvity is caught and punished. And anyone who has already done so to also be punished.

I think imprisonment is not a strong enough punishment though. Capital punishment should be brought back for hienous crimes.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

Guys... arent we missing the point here?

Young muslims are being recruited, brain-washed to fight the state that they live in. To become terrorists when they could have become something more.

They're lives could have been alot more meaningfull than mear pawns in some sick game.

Back in BLACK

It is being said there were timers involved in all the train blasts. This has been asserted based on incomplete forensic tests and the simultaneous nature of the blasts, which were previously thought to have been a few minutes apart. It's still totally possible to my mind that you can be that synchronised without timers but I don't know about the forensics. Timers apparently helps confirm local anybodies and a foreign mastermind as in al Qaeda.

And there will be more intriguing details yet. The [url= Wharf[/url] thing.

In light of the fact that the London bombers were all British-born and raised I would seriously advise people to look at these documents. Ignore the Times article in my first post, it's sensationalist qodswallop. Read the documents and make up your own mind. For those of you who can't put up with the repetitiveness and the bureaucratic jargon I'll try and highlight the main points later.

After the Madrid bombings Tony Blair asked the Home Office and the Foreign Office to report on the state of British Muslims vis-a-vis extremism. The documents talk about British Islamic extremism and gov relations with the Muslim community.

Please direct all views specific to the London attacks to the 'London Bomb Blasts' thread.

April/May 2004

Alqaeda is not really an organisation, but an ideology.

An angry individual can easily fall into the trap. Generally we all agree with the causes, but disagree with the response.
Alqaeda's response is often militant, whilst others is generally just to pray. The direct response can and is seen by many as an attractive option.

They need to be taught that it is not attractive, and should not be thought of as an option.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

Remember these are internal government documents that were not supposed to be seen by the public.

Here are some of the points from the first pdf.

There is a feeling that parts of the Muslim community, particularly younger men, are disaffected . This includes some that are well educated with good economic prospects. AI Qaida and its off-shoots provide a dramatic pole of attraction for the most disaffected.

Economic opportunity - are programmes to ensure economic opportunity for all parts of the Muslim community adequate? If they were given higher priority how would that be achieved without a negative reaction from 'losers'? Should programmes be targeted specifically at the Muslim community or be 'ethnically blind'? Are there lessons to be learnt from the response to alienation of the afro-carribean community in the 1980s?

The links between social deprivation among British Muslims and extremism is not simple cause and effect . Case histories suggest that the British Muslims who are most at risk of being drawn into extremism and terrorism fall into two groups :
a) well educated, with degrees or technical/professional qualifications, typically targeted] by extremist recruiters and organisations circulating on campuses;
b) under-achievers with few or no qualifications, and often a non-terrorist criminal background - sometimes drawn to Mosques where they may be targeted by extremist preachers and in other cases radicalised or converted whilst in 'prison. Moreover many of the UK's links to international terrorism are from expatriate communities and exiles from abroad, especially North Africa, who are motivated by an international agenda. However we will certainly not be effective in tackling the dangers of extremism without gaining the active cooperation of Muslims, immigrant and British, and that gives us added reason for addressing their problems of social exclusion.

One common feature of cases where young Muslims have become involved in terrorist activity has been a genuine sense of bewilderment on the part of their parents . We think we should explore with Muslim representatives whether there are ways of engaging Muslim parents and helping them to be part of the solution.

The Government needs to persuade the Muslim community that it respects and trusts the community, and knows that those involved in terrorism constitute only a very small minority . At the same time, it needs to persuade Muslim leaders, both nationally and locally, to be more active in tacklihg extremism and making this clear to both Muslims and non-Muslims. This requires continuing engagement with Muslim leaders and organisations, involving MPs, engaging with the Muslim business community (since local business leaders are often influential in Mosque committees), and ensuring consistent messages from Government.

Our Community Cohesion team has set up a system for monitoring community tensions in key areas' around the country. This draws on local authority, VCs and police sources including ACPO's new National Community Tensions Team . We are exploring with ACPO a possible supplementary survey of extremist activity in schools and campuses in selected areas.

It is also important to combat Islamaphobia and persuade the public and the media that Muslims are not the enemy within . Government needs to look for opportunities to highlight Muslim success stories and examples of Muslim contributions to society at national and local level. We need to help and encourage Muslim organisations to represent their community effectively and in a positive light.

We need to understand better the causes and extent of extremism, and the nature of links between extremism and terrorism . A strong Muslim identity and strict adherence to traditional Muslim teachings are not in themselves problematic or incompatible with Britishness .

A number of extremist groups are actively recruiting young British Muslims. Most do not advocate violence. But they can provide an environment for some to gravitate to violence. Extremists target poor and disadvantaged Muslims, including through mosque and prison contact. But they also target middle class students and affluent professionals through schools and college campuses. Others get recruited through personal contact, often by chance, and maintain a low profile for operational purposes .

[Gov responses]

Conduct focus groups with young Muslims, exploring their views on key aspects of foreign and domestic policy, interpretations of Islam, and the compatibility of being, British and Muslim. Focus groups to be drawn from a range of educational, economic and ethnic backgrounds .

Prepare communications plan aimed at combating distorted public and media perceptions of Islam and Muslims. Collaboration on this with moderate Muslim bodies, including student bodies, will further assist Government/Muslim relations.

Seek opportunities through Government engagement and recognition, to promote awareness of moderate scholars with followings amongst young Muslims, such as Imam Hamza Yusuf and Imam Suhaib Webb.

"Admin" wrote:
Alqaeda is not really an organisation, but an ideology.

Not really. The Qutbis and Salafi Qutbis existed before the afghan war and the formation of "The Base". Alqaeda properly speaking is a mafia. Its central "family" seems to emerge out of Arabia and is connected to the rebel nationalist movement there that wants to overthrow the house of Saud and install democracy. So this thing that the "experts" are saying is their enemy is actually their friend.

Connected to that central body is a whole list of wahhabi and qutbi groups and some ethnic muslim fighters (e.g. they were using bandits in the Phillipines at one point).

Whats most important though is that its a secret society and therefore cannot be considered to represent muslims.

[/quote]

this is as no disrespect to anyones views but i do feel at a loss as to how ple have become so well informed about an apparently secret society that cropped up in the world media only a few years ago.

i for one cannot say i know anything for sure

almas,

Because people have looked stuff up.

Polls between November 2001 and December 2002 suggested that a relatively small, but not insignificant minority of British Muslims felt some sympathy for terrorist attacks on the USA, did not feel loyal to Britain, did not condemn British Muslims who fought against allies in Afghanistan or thought Muslims have gone too far in integrating into British society. The ICM poll published in the Guardian on 15 March 2004 recorded 13% of British Muslims as thinking that further terrorist attacks on the USA would bejustified. In each case, substantial majorities took the opposite view but the existence of minorities disposed towards extremist positions cannot be ignored and needs to be better understood.

We know that a large number of young Muslims are able to integrate into society, define a British Muslim identity for themselves and contribute positively to society. Anecdotal evidence suggests Muslims who have experienced life in other European countries often say that acceptance is better in the UK (this perception is likely to have been enhanced by France's decision to ban the wearing of conspicuous religious symbols in schools). Neither a strong sense of Muslim identity (including a sense of community with Muslims world-wide) nor strict adherence to traditional Islamic teachings are in themselves dangerous or problematic . The number of young Muslims in Britain who are actively espousing extremist politics may be very small, though we need to get a better feel for this.

Policy objectives include persuading young Muslims that they can be Muslim and British, and that Islam is not regarded with hostility. In this context the term `Islamic fundamentalism' is unhelpful and should be avoided, because some perfectly moderate Muslims are likely to perceive it as a negative comment on their own approach to their faith .

It seems that a particularly strong cause of disillusionment amongst Muslims including young Muslims is a perceived `double standard' in the foreign policy of western governments (and often those of Muslim governments), in particular Britain and the US. This is particularly significant in terms of the concept of the "Ummah", i.e. that Believers are one "nation". This seems to have gained a significant prominence in how some Muslims view HMG's policies towards Muslim countries .

Perceived Islamophobia (particularly post-9/11) in society and the media may cause some British Muslims including young Muslims to feel isolated and alienated and in a few cases to reject democratic and multi-cultural values.

Parts of the Muslim community are still developing an understanding of how to reconcile their faith and Islamic identity with living in a secular multi-cultural society, and with modern social challenges. There is a developing critique by some within the Muslim community, both abroad and here, that traditional Islamic jurisprudence is not equipped to fulfil the needs of Muslims living in the West and needs to be developed and updated. There are tentative moves towards developing Islamic jurisprudence for Muslims living in Europe and the Western World.

Some young Muslims are disillusioned with mainstream Muslim organisations that are perceived as pedestrian, ineffective and in many cases, as `sell-outs' to HMG

There is a spectrum of extremist organisations to consider, e.g. Al Muhajiroun, Hizbut-Tahrir, as well as less organised groups who follow a particular extremist doctrine, eg jihads, radical deobandis, etc. In the majority of the cases, the ideological doctrine and even the methodology are not constructs of Muslims born in the UK, rather they are the British based brands of organisations that are found in Europe and the rest of world (the majority of which originate from the Middle East and the Asian sub-continent but have bases all over Europe and the world).

Intelligence indicates that the number of British Muslims actively engaged in terrorist activity, whether at home or abroad, or supporting such activity is extremely small ad estimated at less than 1%.

Parts of the Muslim community fear that the government, the media and the wider community regard them with suspicion and hostility, and feel beleaguered as a result. Some Muslims also currently feel anxious and angry about arrests and searches under anti-terrorist powers, which they perceive as being applied excessively and abusively. We should not lightly dismiss as unrepresentative the campaign on this currently being mounted by the mainly moderate Muslim Council of Britain and other organisations.

The mainstream Muslim community has been vocal in its public condemnation of extremism . For example, the Muslim Council of Britain expressed sympathy with the people of Spain after the Madrid bombs and has recently written to Imams calling on Muslims to report suspicions to the police. The Islamic Society of Britain and figures such as Abdal Hakim Murad of Cambridge University, Dr Manazir Ahsan of the Islamic Foundation and Dr Zaki Badawi have also spoken out.

Policy should have two main aims:
Angel to isolate extremists within the Muslim community, and to provide support to the moderates, equipping and encouraging them to oppose the extremist threat within their communities. But it is important to identify moderates correctly - some of those who are influential in the extremist world purport to be moderates.
(b) to help prevent young Muslims from becoming ensnared or bullied into participation in terrorist or extremist activity.

The shrill and defensive tone which has been adopted sometimes, in the past by some Muslim representative bodies risks alarming Muslims rather than reassuring them. We need to make further progress in transforming our relationship with the MCB and others into one of greater trust and partnership, building on the helpful contacts which the Home Secretary and Foreign Secretary have had with them recently. Ministers of both departments plan regular meetings with Muslim representatives.

Annex B - Hizbut Tahrir, Al Muhajiroon

There has been a step change in our work with British Muslims. This is reflected above all in de-sensitising interaction with the FCO. Many mainstream organisations now feel more comfortable in engaging with us, and any previous stigma in doing so has been lessened. For example, we have managed to build working relationships with organisations that have previously been critical of us or have even declined to attend meetings. These include ISB, Q News, YMUK, FOSIS, etc. Even with regards to an organisation like the MCB, our relationship with them has perceptively changed, e.g. they are taking an active part in working with us on future activity, as well as positively reviewing our activities on the MCB Direct website.

Promotion of Mainstream Islam- We have started sponsorship and promotion of literature under the heading of `Exploring Islam' (produced by the Institute for Islamic Dawah and Research), which was launched in Islam Awareness Week. The idea is to promote understanding of issues such as Islam and democracy. We have also assisted the CLU and the FCO Hajj Delegation in re-vamping the image of the Delegation (i.e, through its literature and communication resources)

As discussed, we should inform the embassies of countries such as Germany, France, Italy, etc, and our embassies in those countries, of our strategy of building bridges with mainstream Islam, as the assumption is that there will be a great deal of interest .

British Muslims: socio-economic data and attitudes