Salaam
Rahmanara Chowdhury is a bright, affable woman with a charming laugh and an approachable manner. She is a part-time teacher in Loughborough and, given her friendly disposition, it's not surprising that her subject is communication. What is unexpected is that she teaches teenagers 'interpersonal skills, teamwork, personal development' while dressed in an outfit that conceals her whole body and face, except for the eyes.
Chowdhury is one of a growing number of Muslim women in Britain who choose to wear the niqab, the veil that leaves only the eyes on public view. Where once the sight of a fully hidden woman was restricted to a few traditionalist communities, nowadays it is not unusual to see the niqab on high streets throughout the major cities of England and in a number of smaller towns. Just a decade ago, this form of enshrouding was seen as an unambiguous sign of female oppression and feudal custom, but now it is frequently referred to as an expression of religious identity, individual rights and even, in some cases, female emancipation.
If wearing a niqab is an assertion of Chowdhury's individual and human rights, what does it say about the rights of others about her and her responsibilities to the students under her charge? Can they really gain a full understanding of personal communication skills when their teacher conceals that part of the human anatomy that is designed for universal communication: the face? Is there not a problem in explaining the subtleties of facial gestures and non-verbal dialogue?
'No, not really,' Chowdhury argued from behind her veil as we sat together in a busy hall in Loughborough University. 'I've had to teach those things, but it shifts to verbal skills.'
[url=http://observer.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,6903,1646389,00.html]Guard...
I was talking about job discrimination with a Niqabi friend of mine (she doesn’t view the Niqab as being Fard)… she believed that people who wear the Niqab are rightfully discriminated against in jobs.
My thoughts on this issue are not black and white…
The face is very expressive and one can tell a lot about someone by just looking at their face, one can relate to someone more so if the face is on display....in professions such as teaching or working with kids this is important…
This issue is very interesting. And I do NOT wish to discuss whether or not Niqab is Fard/wajib or Mubah etc We should accept that differences of opinion exist on this issue and we should learn to respect them…I just want to bring up the implications and limitations (if any) of wearing a Niqab full time in the West.
How do YOU view a Niqabi? Do you (Niqabi’s) ever face job discrimination? Is it important to keep the face on display when working in certain professions?
How do you (Niqabi’s) travel, especially with the security situation post-9/11 and 7/7?
Does covering the face attract more attention? Is it necessary? Can it be harmful? And how do you (non Muslims) perceive the Niqab?
Share your thoughts..
Wasalaam
lol honestly it's a little spooky - it's not precisely something i'm used to seeing - no muslims in Charleston that I can think of wear them... in fact the only places i've ever seen them are in NYC parts of Britain or on TV.
It seems a bit unneccessary, a Hijab ought to be enough for modesty to win the day, the Niqab seems to me a bit overkill and from what I have read of women who wear them in the west - reactionary.
Never been a fan of wearing clothes to make a social statement of any kind - seems a bit ostentatious and tacky.
I get a little annoyed with women who wear them, then do a front page interview (replete with pictures) about how they are making a statement against western objectification of women et cetera, and how they (the naqabi) are so modest.
It's a little bit insulting to be lectured about how immodest the west is (usually arguing in rather broad language and boiling everything down to Hollywood), and it's also a little insulting to be lectured about how men can't keep their eyes to themselves - we're not [i]that[/i] bad.
Also - we all must make concessions to cultural norms. Walking around in broad dayling wearing a black veil or full black robes is a bit extreme and out of the ordinary. Obviously we can't go the opposite route and lose ourselves to whatever the majority will is - there must be a balance.
Fortunately Islam (from what you say) is equally of the opinion with the West that the middle road is the best way. I should think that this middle road is the Hijab - but I think I am wading in waters best left for muslims to decide.
All that said if Islam [i]requires[/i] the Niqab or if muslim girls are wearing it because they feel it is a duty I certainly am in no position to judge.
Still looks out of place though.
Therefore I would say I am more skeptical of the [i]reason[/i] a girl would wear a Niqab than I am of the actual garment itself - which I find peculiar in all cases.
Same holds true for any "drastic" expression of religious devotion - Abayas et cetera.
lol wouldn't ban em though - this is the USA not France.
Salam
We CAN'T !!
Omrow
Very astute Omrow, then again it could be argued that you're being obtuse.
I think I commented on the spookiness in another thread and suggested that Muslims should wear white jilbab/niqab instead of black ones.
For the sake of being modest as we understand it in English, I guess this is a valid statement. Also running with a Niqab probably increases drag (started fluid mechanics on my degree course recently!
For the sake of being 'modest' (as the English understand it) then yeah it can.
True we're not that bad, but we do slip up, and some of us break easily, so the modesty here is not just modesty, its nobleness. to me wearing one is akin to A father following his kid on their first bike ride so if they wobble he can stop them from falling.
It is said woman was made out mans rib, to protect his Heart.
True, but...
...I don't think the West pursues this balance 9in its Totality) though, I think it tries to be good but at every stage is assailed by it desires and so ends up with a morality that tries (and that is at times succsessful) but occasionally does more harm than good.
Gentleness and kindness were never a part of anything except that it made it beautiful, and harshness was never a part of anything except that it made it ugly.
Through cheating, stealing, and lying, one may get required results but finally one becomes
I not trying to be funny sis, but I can't see how you can say this
And then ask question like this, because it goes back to the orginal point on why people do it for in the first reason
Because if you going to look at the situation in the frame mind of a western. Then you obviously going to have to be critical. But as muslims it really shouldn't be how we should look at the situation. It come too down to who you trying to please at the end of teh day, Allah swt or the society. If a sister feel the need to wear a niqab to please allah swt, all these situation and aspect you mention become secondary to her. This is something that as muslims we should praise. I think sometime as muslims we can take a selfish position and start looking to fault a person intention by mentioning such things, as she doesn't have to wear it, it ain't fard. But, i find it so disappointing when I hear this especially from muslims, becaause this tell me just what kind of shape we are in today. It important who example we are trying to follow and who is it really who we need to please for salvation. Because i think we think too much about what tom di ck and harry thinks then who really matters
"A true Muslim is thankful to Allah in prosperity, and resigned to His will in adversity."
[url=http//www.guidancemedia.com/videostream.php?id=Burda.mov]Quran[/url]
personally...I think Niqabi's deserve respect
but I dont see it as being practical in the west-esp working
just my opinion
btw yuit not every Niqabi wears the Niqab cos she considers it fard-
Where did I say that :?:, I mention people saying it ain't fard in regards to their own attitude and how it somehow percieve as being too much for the current society.
"A true Muslim is thankful to Allah in prosperity, and resigned to His will in adversity."
[url=http//www.guidancemedia.com/videostream.php?id=Burda.mov]Quran[/url]
really?
Do you where jeans, trackies, hoodies and trainers or snobby clothes?
The thing is it’s created a culture where women are made to feel ashamed of their bodies. If they see a girl wearing tight clothes they instantly brand her as a cheap slut and if she ever gets raped she’s the one they will blame. Many girls are forced to where one even if they don’t want to where one. And loads of girls are deprived from wearing the latest fashion gear.
In the old forum there was a thread about a girl who wanted to where a jilbab to school and the school would not let her so she had to take them to court. The thread kinda went off the topic and people started to talk about modesty in general. I was [i]disgusted[/i] to read Muslims sisters post about women who wear mini-skirts and tiny tops are partially to be blamed if they get raped since they were dressed as sluts in the first place.
In the middle east it is [i]impossible[/i] for a women to be modest enough. But it [i]is[/i] a misconception that all Saudi girls are oppressed coz they aint.
I was also disgusted to see in Muslims sisters thread about “enjoining what is good and forbidding what is bad” that she some how thought that morality cops where a good idea, being arrested for not wearing a headscarf is flat out ridiculous, just ask any girl who got arrested for not wearing one. Choosing what you where is basic human right which many girls are being deprived off. I think they should get arrested if they choose to where the cross (as a fashion accessory) but they should not be arrested for not wearing a headscarf.
I read in a ahadith that if a women who does not wear a headscarf and attracts a man (even if she did not intend to attract him) she will be cursed because the man will feel so horny he’ll want to rape a girl. Thankfully our heretical sects never blame the woman if she gets raped, even if she was walking round totally naked, it would be great if the rest of the Muslim world adapted the same attitude.
lol yea. We’ve got our own problems about women and the dress code. It’s created many problems of its own. Women have been seriously degraded. I feel our problem is worse then yours and the niqab in general has created too many problems, imo there would be less problems if they walked round naked.
What you put in the hearts of others; is what goes back into your own heart…
Salam
All women should be allowed to wear as much as possible.
I don't think there is any "liberal" country on earth that allows women to wear as less as possible.
Either way, women are still not given the freedom in the 21st century.
Omrow
Abu Dhabi, 8 June (AKI) - In a new move designed to clamp down on
absenteeism among state employees in the United Arab Emirates, the
authorities have banned women from wearing the veil to work in any
public office. The no-veil policy is designed to stop would-be
slackers from clocking in and then sneaking out of the building
unrecognised, as their 'niqab' or veil that completely covers the
face leaving just their eyes visible, the Italian daily Corriere
della Sera reported on Wednesday.The veil ban was ordered by sheikh
Ahmad al-Kabisi in a fatwa - or religious edict. In it he says:
"People have the right to be able to recognise the people they come
into contact with and not be feel they are being deceived. Only the
wives of the Prophet have the duty to wear the 'niqab' as they are
the mothers of all devout Muslims. No other woman has this
obligation."
"Islam allows women to show their face in public and this is
necessary in the workplace. Women who do not agree would look for
another job where they do not need to show their face," al-Kabisi
[said].
How much of a women's face and body she should cover according to
the Koran is the subject of dispute amongst Islamic scholars. But
irrespective of the theological debate, the al-Kabisi fatwa and
other recent moves in the Gulf signal that pragmatism is winning
out over ideology and the "public interest" prevailing over piety.
[url=http://www.ureader.co.uk/message/865999.aspx]LINK[/url]
This just shows you how they are just trying to make a statement. There is many way around this sort of behaviour, one could be having a room where women in the veil can remove it to show their indentity to another woman. But it obvious too some muslim the veil is consider backwards and it seem they feel ashamed of it in some way. It funny how some people make such a fuss about following the sunnah and showing love to the prophet (saw), but they still find it so hard to accept something such as the veil.
"A true Muslim is thankful to Allah in prosperity, and resigned to His will in adversity."
[url=http//www.guidancemedia.com/videostream.php?id=Burda.mov]Quran[/url]
I had a mixture of feelings. Some looked extreme to me, others looked beautiful. I never understood why women wore it. I had respect for them, because it can't be easy wearing that in the west.
But I admit I was very ignorant/arrogant and unwilling to look into the reasons behind it. Maybe I was afraid the sacred texts would dispel all the myths and force me to re-examine my beliefs.
I think this is true of both muslims and non muslims who look upon the face veil and other islamic attire as extreme or oppressive. It represents a fear of the unknown and and a stubborn and proud attitude which screams "I know best, don't try and brainwash me".
My beliefs have changed dramatically since, and if anything brainwashed me it was the Quran and ahadith.
I can't answer this one because I'm not working at the moment. Aphrodite works i think.
It can be restrictive in certain jobs. But generally if you're following a professional career then I don't think it does so much. Because teachers, doctors, nurses etc are in high demand. If you have the qualifications, experience right personality that speaks volumes more than exposing a pretty face. I honestly believe niqabis can get the job if they have this kind of attitude.
I have a friend who wears niqab and works. I know many sisters in London who wear niqab and have professional jobs.
I've recently been offered work in niqab, but I don't know if I can accept it due to unforseen problems.
soon after 7/7 i didn't go out very far alone. But since then I have. A sister in a headscarf or ethnic wear is just as likely to get attacked. I can't sit at home in fear, and why should I? I haven't got blood on my hands. If i need to go out I do. If I get abuse then well that's life. It's upsetting but you learn to accept it, as the experience of wearing niqab in the west. It's my test in life.
But to those against niqab I respect your reasons for being against it, even if I despise the way you mock the niqab, and mock human beings you haven't taken the time to even know. But why should I accept your taunts? Why should I be abused even when I'm minding my own business trying to do the weekly shop in a supermarket? I've had comments passed at me in the supermarket recently and my husband was with me. He didn't hear it, I did. The ironic thing is it's non muslim women who say things not the men. They seem to have more of an issue with me being covered than their male partners do. Do I feel like swearing yes! Do I feel like physically beating them up hell yes. Am I angry upset yes! Do these ignorant ppl who have a laugh at my expense care hell no. I don't react in a negative way because I know I'll have to answer God some day and so will they.
Point being next time you see a sister all covered up just keep your nasty opinions and abuse to yourself. I don't pass comments on women wearing clothes that show off the figure of flesh, so that's the least you can do for me.
It can attract more attention but not necessarily negative. It depends where you are. I believe the niqab opens the doors for dawah. Those muslims who claim niqabis are scaring away potential reverts need to get rid of their arrogance. Are you presuming you are the epitome of the perfect muslim, that you are a magnet for non muslims, and that I must be the force that is driving them away?
Niqabis need to speak up. Act as they normally would. Strike up conversations with non muslims who appear fearful of them. Generally make more of an effort to dispel all the myths.
Is it necessary? Can it be harmful? And how do you (non Muslims) perceive the Niqab?
I think it's something the early muslims adhered to. Not only the noble wives of our prophet (saw), but also other pious women of the same era. By wearing it I'm not claiming to be more modest or more dear in the eyes of God than any other woman. I'm following what I believe is the truth, and most pleasing to God.
How can anyone presume I'm pretentious, or acting on some false sense of modesty? Acting for who exactly? God can see beyond the act.
So by the same token you're presuming i'm a humble person for going without the face veil, but I'm ostentatious for covering my face?
It takes a lot to cover ones body let alone face in this society. I think I sacrificed a lot to come to this stage,not that i'm complaining. If I was a person who liked to show off the last thing i'd do is cover my face for some sense of importance. So I don't understand that viewpoint, sounds really lame to me.
Anyone can be ostentatious. A priest, a nun, person in western garb. You don't have to wear obviously religious attire to be ostentatious. It all depends on how you carry yourself. Equally so you can wear religious attire and be modest.
I don't know why i bother to answer, the topic just upsets me. Why get all steamed up about prejudices that will always exist in the minds of muslims and non muslims alike.
I didnt know that the people frm Abu Dhabi make a fuss about showing love to the Prophet
or are u assuming?
IF such problems as the ones they've highlighted exist then they have a right to be concerned
its sad that some Niqabi's mis use the niqab
but banning it is obvioulsy not the answer
good post YASH :shock:
I wasn't assuming nothing about Abud Dhabi, just about many muslims in general.
They nothing wrong with being concerned, but there something wrong when you quick to push through fatwas and bans especially in a muslim dominated country.
The thing I like about Niqabi, is that all the one I know of are free from corruption, because of the visual affect it has on people around them, which as a muslim i find a positive one personally.
"A true Muslim is thankful to Allah in prosperity, and resigned to His will in adversity."
[url=http//www.guidancemedia.com/videostream.php?id=Burda.mov]Quran[/url]
well all the muslims I've come across all respect the Niqab-I've never come across any Muslim who disses it
the Niqabi's I know have never faced any "whats the point of wearing it-it aint even fard" comments
but the issue raised is regarding practicality
i know of people in the teaching profession and NHS who were refused jobs cos its very importnat for pateints and children to see the face
whether this is right or wrong-IMO is debatable
oo fanks muslimsislilsis bit shoddy i thght, i'm meant to be cooking not sitting here.
I agree with issue of nhs jobs. I've often thght of becoming a midwife. It would be ideal for me. I'd be dealing with the female species lol. But their partners would be in tow. Anyways I'm pretty certain the pregnant women would want to see my face. Get to know me on a personal level because the midwife is a very important part of the birth process. I can understand that.
Maybe it would be permissible to remove it in such a job, i'm not quite sure.
Well we obviously live in different worlds. Because i heard alot of off the cuffs remark in my time about it by muslims.
"A true Muslim is thankful to Allah in prosperity, and resigned to His will in adversity."
[url=http//www.guidancemedia.com/videostream.php?id=Burda.mov]Quran[/url]
i think that depends on ur perception of the Niqab
if u view it Fard then u couldnt really remove it (most men are present when their wife gives birth)
also many men these days are nurses and midwives too (God knows why :roll: )
but if u didnt consider it as Fard then u could remove it
god blessed yash wid a lot of intelegence
how many qualifications do u have yash?
What you put in the hearts of others; is what goes back into your own heart…
religious qualifications? zero
Any GCSE’s, A-levels, Degrees, phDs?
Ever done an IQ test?
Your deffo the most brainiest person on the forum, even more brainier then Ed, Admin, Muslim sister and Dave.
What you put in the hearts of others; is what goes back into your own heart…
nah it's all a front i'm really an airhead. yeah i've got the usual gcse's, alevel's, degree. But thanxs for making me smile had a long day
do you eat lots of fish?
I don’t like fish. I better start eating it soon, its good brain food.
What you put in the hearts of others; is what goes back into your own heart…
mm i'm bengali the first words we learn as soon as we can crawl is fish lol. Yeah i eat quite a lot love it.
I love fish
its true, people will foreve hold thier opinions
be happy why you do it, and do it for the right reasons.
who cares what others think
and to overcome any difficulties which may arise coz of the hijab/niqab is a great achievement you can be really proud of
women who wear niqabs and hijabs in britain have come a long way, and its now more common than before
im a man obviously, it doesnt effect me personally..........but i want to say a big big-up to the Hijabi's, and ENUFF respect on top to the Niqabi's
not sayin Hijabi's deserve less or that Niqab should be worn (i dont have a clue on that really, but i have my own opinion), but Niqabi's have got guts. lots of them.
and i praise the ones who stand up for them, i.e Yashmaki
The Lover is ever drunk with love;
He is free, he is mad,
He dances with ecstasy and delight.
Caught by our own thoughts,
We worry about every little thing,
But once we get drunk on that love,
Whatever will be, will be.
ɐɥɐɥ
Captain Birds Eyes
The Lover is ever drunk with love;
He is free, he is mad,
He dances with ecstasy and delight.
Caught by our own thoughts,
We worry about every little thing,
But once we get drunk on that love,
Whatever will be, will be.
ɐɥɐɥ
we went down Oxford street on the tube on saturday to do a bit of winter shopping..
the mrs must've been the only one wearing the nikab there..
i was a bit on edge taking her there, but thanks to the almighty, we had no problems.
looking at people, you see the initial shock in their faces, then they get on with their own business.
shes going college, I've told her that, I prefer her not to work as the almighty has given me the means to earn the little bit I can.
But I have thought about it myself, working in the UK with a nikab.. I can see many jobs where it won't happen.. but then again in my opinion those jobs should be reserved for men.
But for other jobs, the only obstacle for sisters who wear the nikab is to fight the lies that have been implanted by media about oppression.
But I big up all sisters who wear the Nikab in the west, I believe their efforts will be highly rewarded by Allah. The sisters who have been wearing the Nikab before my Mrs has definatly made it easier for her to wear it in the UK.
[b][i]Round and round the Ka'bah,
Like a good Sahabah,
One step, Two step,
All the way to jannah[/i][/b]
I didn't know you were married Khan,
Congratulations belatedly!
My sister in law from back home was refused a job in a nursury. I can understand where they were coming from. Her niqab did scare some of the little kids.
Niqab should be banned in certain professions, but thats just my view. Big up to everyone who wears one.
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