She knows I find them boring

but she says its for my own good

I like the fun informal study circles only-

there's one I should go to every day from 4.30 to 6-that class puts me to sleep

so from 4.30 to 6 I'm in my bedroom and mum thinks I'm at class-I come downstairs at around 6 but I ALWAYS get grassed up

but ur worng omro-there's lots of things that we dont like in life but are good for u

Ive started to attend study circles now that I'm home for christmas. But the information just seems to go over my head. The girls who lead the circle look down at me because I don't seem to know or do as much they do. And I'm not being paranoid. I reprimanded in front of the entire class because the sleeves of my top was sheer. I thought it wasnt a biggie as we were all girls. Im beginning to hate that class. Its hard finding good study circles and I now know how important it is to attend them.

Does anyone know of any good circles in the London area. I can drive so I can go anywhere in London.

If you have any questions, just shout out here.

Study circles can be good, or a pain. Some people are condescending. Others are not.

In the events forum, look at the 'Islamic circles' posts. they may have one near you.... or someone from down south may help...

"Admin" wrote:

If you have any questions, just shout out here.

I love your mag and the website. But the same cant be said about your forum. As much as I love some of the posters here I also hate some too. Some posts put me off Islam whilst others do the opposite. This place is not a place to seek answers.

It is a place to seek answers. You will recieve many diferent and varied answers. Some may even be revolting. At the same time there is a discussion, which canhelp you decide.

Otherwise, on the main site there is an agony aunt section. It is answered by Sister Ruqayyah Waris Maqsood (or another scholar if its related to a fiqh issue).

Albeit there are better places to learn.

If the lady is sincere in finding more out about islaam then may I suggest she make connection with reliable ulama in this regard.

In my experience the activities undertaken by ulama of truth are far more beneficial and bear more fruit.

If the lady is in london then there are many masajid and madaris in london. She should make contact with the local ulama of her locality and start attending some weekly/monthly classes that go on.

She said that she is doing so, but is seen as a second class.

Perhaps she may wanna try some study circles for uni's?

alot of people restart to learn when they go uni, so they may be better.

However here there is a need for extra care to make sure the people running the show are extra-legit...

Personally I would not advise uni study circles, never in my life will i suggest them.

I do not see what the problem is with the mosque teaching. She cited being told off or scolded for wearing indecent clothing, that was what one would expect from the lady in charge.

If someone hopes to go and learn about islaam without having ones faults pointed out and without being made to feel ashamed of our sinful lives then such a person may go where they please.

The point of going to learn Islaam is solely the Ridha of ALLAH. and in that process is included the realisation of how sinful and mean we humans are. In my opinion it is my right to be criticised and to have my faults pointed out when I go to learn about islaam. I am going there to better myself, not to hear a comfy talk abt how we all nice ppl and ALLAH loves us and we're ALLAH's friends.

Those lessons are correct in their place, but initially and more importantly we need to get into our heads how sinful we are and how much we deserve punishment.

Remember, we must have HOPE in the mercy but also FEAR for our sins. Unfortunately our condition in general is that we HOPE to much and FEAR too little. I Hope in ALLAH'S mercy, but I dont fear Him enough because if I did then I wouldnt be the despicable sinner that I am. Hence I CONGRATULATE those people who go against this commercial and consumerist tide of massaging th ego of the consumer/public and says it how it is, we are sinning beyond belief and need to sort it out NOW.

If you make the effort to try and learn, the least others can do is accept that.

Not everyone starts off perfectly.

Instead of just jumping on them, they should be encouraged.

Why should one be shamed if they decide to learn about Islam?

Who's way is that? The islamic way is one of compassion and wisdom.

So according to you we should try to become better muslims by the stick and not the carrot? (by stick I mean fear, not forcing people...)

It is all about attitude.

People leave an atmosphere if it makes them uncomfortable. Learning Islam should not be as such.

"Ramz" wrote:

Does anyone know of any good circles in the London area. I can drive so I can go anywhere in London.

Ramz, MuslimSis lives in London - u cud go to her circles... and speak to her in person!

"musk" wrote:

I do not see what the problem is with the mosque teaching. She cited being told off or scolded for wearing indecent clothing, that was what one would expect from the lady in charge.

err, i'm sorry but according to Islamic etiquette its wrong to point out someone's (suspected) faults in public and embarass them. what the teacher did to Ramz was unacceptable, if she really needed to tell her, she could've taken her aside after the class was over. :roll:

"Aasiyah" wrote:

"Ramz" wrote:

Does anyone know of any good circles in the London area. I can drive so I can go anywhere in London.

Ramz, MuslimSis lives in London - u cud go to her circles... and speak to her in person!

MS leads study circles? :shock: I'd LOVE to attend. I want to meet her in person too so I've sent her a PM suggesting we get together for a coffee. I just want to hear her speak and tell whats bothering me. She's so clever and religious and never makes people feel bad. But she hasnt replied to my PM's. I don't know if I've sent them properly.

Thank you SOOOOOOOOOOO much Aasiya for understanding where I'm coming from when I mentioned that my study circle teacher makes me feel like bad in public. My heart feels a lot lighter when people understand my issues because then I don't feel like I'm the only one.

"Ramz" wrote:

MS leads study circles? :shock: I'd LOVE to attend. I want to meet her in person too so I've sent her a PM suggesting we get together for a coffee. I just want to hear her speak and tell whats bothering me. She's so clever and religious and never makes people feel bad. But she hasnt replied to my PM's. I don't know if I've sent them properly.

yeh she spoke about her study circles in detail a few pages back, or actually she may have mentioned it on the 'teachers' thread.
as u noted before, MuslimSis and LilSis havent posted in a coupla days - its Xmas hols after all.

"Ramz" wrote:

Thank you SOOOOOOOOOOO much Aasiya for understanding where I'm coming from when I mentioned that my study circle teacher makes me feel like shit in public. My heart feels a lot lighter when people understand my issues because then I don't feel like I'm the only one.

hey no prob. its sad when people who are so learned, who are blessed with knowledge, act like they do not know the first thing about Islamic etiquette. :?

"Aasiyah" wrote:

"musk" wrote:

I do not see what the problem is with the mosque teaching. She cited being told off or scolded for wearing indecent clothing, that was what one would expect from the lady in charge.

err, i'm sorry but according to Islamic etiquette its wrong to point out someone's (suspected) faults in public and embarass them. what the teacher did to Ramz was unacceptable, if she really needed to tell her, she could've taken her aside after the class was over. :roll:

There is a difference of opinion on this issue.

It is better to reprimand the offendor in private but in certain situations it is permitted, infact desirable to reprimand openly. One such situation is when it is perceived that the quiet approach will not work, or if the teacher assesses that a public reprimand will be more beneficial. Similarly it is to set an example to the others aswell.

You're points have been noted.

"musk" wrote:

It is better to reprimand the offendor in private but in certain situations it is permitted, infact desirable to reprimand openly. One such situation is when it is perceived that the quiet approach will not work, or if the teacher assesses that a public reprimand will be more beneficial. Similarly it is to set an example to the others aswell.

how could the teacher have been so sure that 'the quiet approach will not work' when it was the first time Ramz went to her class?
the 'setting an example' thing would apply if this was a children's class - but these were adults, which makes wot the teacher did even worse.
i have never heard of this difference in opinion over the matter - embarassing a person by publicising their faults is just wrong.

I wasnt referring specifically to this case. Hence Im not gonna condemn either way.

You are entitled to your understanding but can I just ask why it makes a difference if its a kids class or an adults class?

In my opinion the adults need these type of treatments even more than the kids. You most likely will disagree but I'm in inclined to a central authority keeping a strict eye on what goes on, be it adults or kids.

"musk" wrote:

You are entitled to your understanding but can I just ask why it makes a difference if its a kids class or an adults class?

In my opinion the adults need these type of treatments even more than the kids. You most likely will disagree but I'm in inclined to a central authority keeping a strict eye on what goes on, be it adults or kids.

children are of the age where they are easily influenced by their peers. hence 'setting an example' in the class is important. (again not in such a way that the 'offending' child would be hurt)

whereas adults already have a sense of right and wrong, and especially in the case of women, are very self-conscious. so whilst a child may soon forget being told off in front of the class, a woman would be left hurt and embarassed - especially in Ramz case where her teachers seem to be the same age as her and the students. hence it is unacceptable to treat adults in such a manner.

there is nothing wrong with 'a central authority' (i.e. the teacher) 'keeping a strict eye' on his/her students. but the treatment for children and adults is not the same when it comes to scolding.

MS study circles sound like fun I just read her posts. I'll have to ask her if I could attend. I admire your common sense too Aasiya. I'd love to get together with all you girls one day. Your so clever you could all teach me a lot. Do you also live in London? Could we all meet up one day?

"Aasiyah" wrote:

"musk" wrote:

You are entitled to your understanding but can I just ask why it makes a difference if its a kids class or an adults class?

In my opinion the adults need these type of treatments even more than the kids. You most likely will disagree but I'm in inclined to a central authority keeping a strict eye on what goes on, be it adults or kids.

children are of the age where they are easily influenced by their peers. hence 'setting an example' in the class is important. (again not in such a way that the 'offending' child would be hurt)

whereas adults already have a sense of right and wrong, and especially in the case of women, are very self-conscious. so whilst a child may soon forget being told off in front of the class, a woman would be left hurt and embarassed - especially in Ramz case where her teachers seem to be the same age as her and the students. hence it is unacceptable to treat adults in such a manner.

there is nothing wrong with 'a central authority' (i.e. the teacher) 'keeping a strict eye' on his/her students. but the treatment for children and adults is not the same when it comes to scolding.

k. I understand your view.

Study circle are good methods, but there are IMO two different type, i think discussion circle are good for the non practicing muslims, as it give them a chance to air their views and fustration, then you have the actual study circle where you learn about Fiqh and other aspect of islam. But putting people on the spot and talking above people, which are very common in some of these circle is wrong, that why it important to have a person with alot of common sense leading these circle and not always the most knowledgable ones.

"yuit" wrote:

but there are IMO two different type, .

I really didnt know that. The type you described sounds so intresting. I just want to make sense of whats going on around me. I dont feel ready to attend the strict religious classes with the strict teachers yet.

Have you ever attended discussion circles?

we have regular study circles where all sisters are encouraged to attend...theres no strict atmosphere, just a nice relaxing place 4 sisters 2 come and ask questions if they need to, to discuss issues that affect the youth today and basically gain more awareness of Islam in general

"muslim_kuri" wrote:

we have regular study circles where all sisters are encouraged to attend...theres no strict atmosphere, just a nice relaxing place 4 sisters 2 come and ask questions if they need to, to discuss issues that affect the youth today and basically gain more awareness of Islam in general

How cool. I'm mainly based in London atm. But occassionally I come home to B'ham. Keep me filled in please.

If the lady if from birmingham then may I recommend she make contact with the Darul Uloom on coventry road. It is mashaALLAH run by mostly bengali ulama and is a centre of light and knowledge.

I am sure that if you foned and asked for advice then the ulama concerned will be more than willing to help.

There is also a house on Charles Road, next to shoe-shop which is a girls maktab. I trust you may find good women to speak with there also.

"Ramz" wrote:

"yuit" wrote:

but there are IMO two different type, .

Have you ever attended discussion circles?

About 10-15 years ago HT lot used to have what i consider discussion groups, found them so interesting. Used to be allow to talk about anything and ask any question, nothing was off limits. The leaders used to be jokers as well and it was fun and informative.

We also had some study circle earlier this year as well based in the mosque, where it was much more knowledge base. It lasted about 6 weeks, but i did pick up alot of islamic knowledge in that time, and hopefully should have some starting soon again.

They sound intresting yuit. And Musk thanks for your post but my family wouldnt like me attending the Darul Uloom on coventry road. I don't know why.

But I will check out the house next to the shoe shop. But I'm only home for another week.