oooh 'Ed; low blow.

Please do not insult scholars.

You and med need to get a room and solve your latent issues.

thread locked.

thanks you two for ruining another good topic.

:evil:

[b]Why not delete those posts, and allow the discussion to continue? -- NewModOnTheBlock[/b]

its still called mars... with or without wrapper.

My opinion on all this is we do not deitify these objects, or their names. So they are allowed. I can understand the opposite viewpoint, but I think it is more based on assumption than fact.

At the same time I do have issues with Nike as I have outlined earlier.

Assalamu Alaikum,

I have referred to askimam.com before, and tend to generally agree with them, but this issue of the nike brand I'm not so sure about. I have tried to suppress my laughter just let me have one laugh please looooooooooooool. Ok i'll begin now.

No disrespect to the ulema who issued the nike fatwa, but here's one that highlights it's flaws. I'm posting it merely to illustrate that this scholar has a very good point, one which in my mind outweighs the argument made on askimam.com:

[b]Question 1157 [/b]
About the nike fatwa I went to askimam.com and Mufti Ebrahim Desai and he said that nike products are haram because nike means the Greek goddess of victory. Since people like nike they said that you said nike is halal but its not. I told that person that they should go to askimam.com but they say since you already said its halal. You should say on your website that nike is haram. (U.S.A)

[b]Answer 1157[/b]
To say that something is impermissible just because it has a wrong name does not make sense to me. Just because a certain scholar has declared the prohibition of a certain object does not mean that everyone has to follow that opinion, especially when there is no Nass (religious text) present to support that claim. The angle through which we view this problem is that there is nothing wrong with this product. When people use this product they don’t have the intent of glorifying a pagan God. In fact, in certain situations they are actually disgracing the name. For example: by wearing a shoe, an object which is used with feet to trample things upon can actually be a disgrace for the name of that object. If a shoe is named Fir own, would it be impermissible to wear that shoe? It's possible that Maulana has given his declaration of prohibitions based on certain special reasons. Whoever has faith and trust on whatever ruling should follow that ruling.

Ref: http://www.shariahboard.com/fatwa/Clothing/1157.php

And admin made an excellent point about the mars bar. Many products have significant and powerful names, but it's not so much the name that makes them forbidden. To me if it's with regards to clothing and food and all things that we consume we should be more concerned about the ethics behind it. Who produced it. If slave labour was used. Where the profits are going. To me that is more important than just a name.

What about hot cross buns, english pancakes, croissants do you eat them, do you know their significance? I eat them does that make me a sinner? This topic is huge.

P.S
Calypso- also spelt with a k, greek goddess of silence. An ice lolly too?

Flora- Roman Goddess of flowers. Flora margarine?

Personally, I profess my ignorance so rely on the Specialists in deen and refer to their knowledge.

Now if people want to mock at them, that is their choice. ALLAH has give you free choice people use it as u please.

Alhamdulillah, I do not claim to have the knowledge to issue fatawa, hence I rely on those who do. Thats me being a sheep, sorry I dont have much confidence in my own understanding of deen, perhaps when I am sure abt the full masail of salah, zakah, siyaam, and hajj then I might start on something. But I m such an ignoramus I dont know the full details of zakah on the wealth that my family own, or the percentage that is on our land, on our produce, on our houses in pakistan etc.

Im sorry, I dont have the basic knowledge completely pakka yet, so I cant really go challenging ulama, even if my weak mind thinks a thing is illogical I rely on the ulama.

Btw, Im soo stupid I couldnt do AS MATHS, only got a B. so I aint too confident abt my understanding of deen. Lol.

i don't think anyone mocked scholars here. Most folks here found the topic amusing, that doesn't mean they're mocking the scholars. I'm sure certain scholars found it amusing too when the question was put to them, but yet they answered the question in a serious manner.

What about clothing names which are very suggestive such as fcuk. To me that is more offensive and I would never let my kids wear it.

And what of top designer labels which bear the name of homosexual designers, why are they deemed cool and acceptable to wear. No they don't bear the name of Gods on them, but in a metaphorical sense they are Gods of the fashion industry.Promoting products which exploit the poor and give the manufacturers insane profits. Ppl are so hooked on designer labels they will live beyond their means just to fund this thirst for all things found in "vogue". Many muslims are hooked on these products.

So just because something is named after a God that doesn't make it haram immediately. Designer names such as CK, Chanel, Versace etc may not represent pagan Gods, but to me they can be just as bad as Nike and other brands.

BTW I think I made a valid point about the foods we eat. Shouldn't we boycott them too, if we adhere to the nike fatwa? For example english pancakes are made to commemorate shrove tuesday, which is a Christian event. It marks the beginning of lent. Christians used to make pancakes and other things to use up butter, egg, etc which were forbidden during lent. Today we still eat pancakes, shouldn't we stop eating them?

I don't see no religious significance in it, I eat them like any other food. I don't pull out my pan to toss them every shrove tuesday. So the religious meaning is completely lost to me. I doubt any muslim would say I'm immitating disbelievers by eating them.

?

is 1157 too high for you?

or something else?

As Yashmaki pointed out, this scholar disagrees with Mufti Ebrahim Desai.

He also states that if you agree with Mufti Desai on this matter, follow him.

However you are not bound to, ans he has not repsented any evidence to do so.

My isharah was not to any1 specific. Some people did make comments in regards to Hadrat Mufti damat barakaatuhum which I found to be derogatory and not in correct etiquette for such an illustrious personality.

No doubt there maybe Muftis who issue a different fatwa based on their understanding. But coming from the group of those who follow Hadrat Mufti, I rely on his fatawa.

It should be noted that the ulama state that just as a person is OBLIGED to follow ONLY one of the Four Mujtahid Imams, so a person must also necesarrily refer to ONE MUFTI for their fatawa on recent issues. Picking and choosing fatawa from different Muftis even if they are from the same school is not correct according to what I was taught.

Hence, I follow Hadrat Mufti Ebrahim Desai Sahib daamat barakatuhum, in some issue He and Mufti Taqi Uthmani Sahib have issued different fatawa, and alhamdulillah I have the honour to say that My Ustaadji is connected with Mufti Taqi Sahib more than Mufti EbrahimSahib, yet despite this I follow the fatwa of Mufti Ebrahim Sahib because he is the Mufti Sahib who i refer to.

Now certain fatawa, Mufti Taqi Sahib has given which to my nafs are better and easier to act upon, compared to Mufti Ebrahim Sahib, but still I follow Mufti Ebrahim Sahib even though my nafs desires to go after the easier option of Mufti Taqi Sahib. Point being I have chosen Mufti Ebrahim Sahib, and follow my choice through. Picking and choosing fatawa from different Muftis causes confusion just as picking and choosing different masaail from different madhaahib has confused our Ghayr Muqallid brothers.

That is why I said that if anyone follows him, they can continue to follow him.

I am prbably slightly arrogan in this matter.

I try to assess what diferent scholars say, and compare. Go with what I agree. This method does have its pitfalls, But IMO we need to use our brains aswell as follow advice.

lol, brother use ur brain, thats why ALLAH gave it. But wouldnt it be better to become a Mufit yourself and then use your brain when you understand the complexities of the issues? Just a siggestion bruv.

You don't have to stick to one sheikh, or mufti, but there are more benefits by adhering to one i agree.

I wouldn't know who to choose and remain with. How are you supposed to select?

Also say you follow one particular mufti, and he gives a fatwa which you cannot accept. Not because of your nafs but because you believe there is more taqwa in accepting another opinion, rather than the one he has given you. Can you go against that particular fatwa or must you accept it even if you don't agree with it in your heart?

For example in the perfume thread, there imam hanifa (ra) says synthetic alcohol based perfumes are permitted. Whilst some of his students disagree and forbid all types of alcoholic perfumes.

I think you get my point.

well I was taught to stick with one mufti.

Now you mention its not ur nafs but because of taqwa. That is the same argument used by the salafiyya that we choose the masala which is more pious, whic is more authentic.

If you were to choose one because of taqwa, then I say what is the need to even go to a mufti? if you (generally) are so confident in yourself that you choosing on basis of taqwa then why not find the relevant ruling yourself?

There is no difference in following mufti, in all issues save one cos u think its more pious, and following one madhab in everything except one cos u think its more pious.

I aint forcing any1 to do anything. But if we were to step back then we would see that our claims to taqwa either mean we have the firaasah to distinguish between two fatawa, that we can see the complex issues involved and what led to mufti coming to his rulling or it means we are being too confident in our own opinions.

No one cane comment on another, in this issue it is for each person to decide the state of their heart. Personally I openly say my diseased heart is devoid of any such taqwa, may ALLAH make me amongst the muttaqeen ameen.

I dont deny that certain fatawa are VERY hard to act on, and even some fatawa of Hadrat Mufti I find hard to act on and MY logic can justify it. But thats all it is logic, I dont have a leg to stand on when it comes to giving shari dalaail. Eg im doint dentistry, Hadrat Mufti are against touching, looking, dissecting the dead body and anatomy dissection of real bodies is a part of my course. I engage in the sin, I dont touch the body, I dont look at it unless I absolutely have to, I try to keep myself away from the sin but I am still engaged in sin by being there. My logic could justify it, oh we aint doing it for fun, its for education, if no muslim did it then all dentists would be kuffar etc etc. But No, i sin, and even if my logic can justify it I rely on mufti. cos like i said. I couldnt cope with AS Maths, I could only do 10 gcses, i cudnt get complete As for Alevels. These are secular pathetic subjects of the world and ME and my feeble mind couldnt excell in them so how can I ever think I have any understanding in deen? Its not possible. for me, I get confused by integration curves so how can I claim to be able to come out with what is more pious and better taqwa when it comes to fatawa?

No, not for me.

"Med" wrote:

Btw, Im soo stupid I couldnt do AS MATHS, only got a B.

Don't put yourself down, I found AS Maths easy enough and I got a C.

alhamdulillah I am grateful for what I got, but the point is I didnt excel in maths even after spending hours on the subject and was examined on what I learnt for hours. Then how can I hold an opinion of any worth in relation to deen which I have not studied for hours, and the stuf I have studied does not equip me to make a ruling on nike etc?

"Not_a_Kuri" wrote:

"Med" wrote:

Btw, Im soo stupid I couldnt do AS MATHS, only got a B.

Don't put yourself down, I found AS Maths easy enough and I got a C.

i got U

p.s.

Naj........Mars is a greek god, youve contradicted yourself

congratulations

now run

ok people I'v just about had enough of this... shirk, haram and so forth. First of all I would like to ask naj how wearing nike (forget about the stupid name) comes in the cateagory of shirk and if it does then which category of shirk?

Can you please outline this for me, because call me stupid but wearing nike cause its the roman god's name (or whatever, I couldnt careless if its the greek gods name) leads to shirk??? How please????

I don't want anyone going round the circles, I want a clear cut answer to this, no name calling or anything, if you can't answer the question then don't bother replying and saying "Oh i told you these ppl will never believe" "or may Allah shine your face."

thanks

"Darth V-Hayder" wrote:

i got U

p.s.

Naj........Mars is a greek god, youve contradicted yourself

congratulations

now run

^^should settle the argument

if Nike is haraam so should be Mars chocs

the same argument applies to Mars too

personally-mars chos makes me sick

so if I had my way I'd make it haraam

too bad I aint a mufti

FYO its ME who makes duas for ppl when they make me laugh. So nawt to do with naj.

Only thing we have said is that nike according to our Mufti Sahib is not permissible to wear. Thats it. The Mufti Sahib has website, madrassah, contact email adds, postal adreses. Im sure if u really wnted to knw u cud email, telefone, faz, write to the relevant ppl.

As far as I understood naj only put up the ruling that Hadrat has given.

"Med" wrote:

FYO its ME who makes duas for ppl when they make me laugh. So nawt to do with naj.

Only thing we have said is that nike according to our Mufti Sahib is not permissible to wear. Thats it. The Mufti Sahib has website, madrassah, contact email adds, postal adreses. Im sure if u really wnted to knw u cud email, telefone, faz, write to the relevant ppl.

As far as I understood naj only put up the ruling that Hadrat has given.

Didn't you read what I wrote in the above post?

It is not shirk. I doubt that was mufti Desai's verdict.

Having not read it I would assume it was either 'disliked' or 'not allowed' because of the association.

ok if he didn't declare it shirk, fine but naj said its haram. Well isn't haram clearly stated in the Holy Quran? That authority lies only with Allah and Holy Prophet (SAW). If she had said disliked then that would be a different story. But I just don't get it, these people must have a lot of idle time to sit and around and think of nike trainer :roll:

Hey naj atleast I defended you. Even though I disagree.

I had even locked this topic. But some other Mod decided it was better to continue arguing way after everyone had chosen heir sides.

So his reply is they are prohibited. Not kufr or shirk.

He said anything linked to kufr and shirk in not allowed, and nike is (according to him) associated with kufr and shirk, thus making them not allowed.

Not that I agree though.

I disagree with the bit where he assumes Nike is associated with kufr or shirk. It is a name. chosen for its powerful sound and philosophy. not as a deity.

And once aagin I would avoid nike.

"Admin" wrote:

So his reply is they are prohibited. Not kufr or shirk.

umm admin, the mufti person said it was "associated" with shirk i think that is pretty self explanatory dont you think?

The mufti person said "nike is associated with shirk and kufr" unless you want him to come up with nike is shirk/kufr, umm the difference?

"naj" wrote:

admin jee thanx ......

Quote:

The expression of smiley faces and sad faces through internet chatting falls in the category of drawing pictures of animate objects which is prohibited. As an alternative, one may express his/her happiness and sadness in words.

and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best

Mufti Ebrahim Desai

"100" wrote:

"naj" wrote:

admin jee thanx ......

Quote:

The expression of smiley faces and sad faces through internet chatting falls in the category of drawing pictures of animate objects which is prohibited. As an alternative, one may express his/her happiness and sadness in words.

and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best

Mufti Ebrahim Desai

lol