Prophet Muhammad (saw)'s Letter to the Monks of St. Catherine Monastery

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tom wrote:
incitement to violence has always been a criminal offence. during wartime freedom of speech is rightly curtailed not wartime now eh? did you not hear of the global jihad? its ironic that you claim the protection of laws that a you despise of the options available now shutting the fundi mosques is probably the lesser evil or perhaps we should insist that sermons are preached in english, they would then be cheaper to monitor tom

Do you realise that you are an exact mirror image if the people you claim to hate?

Don't just do something! Stand there.

Ya'qub wrote:
tom wrote:
in the uk i merely want them to respect our customs and mores and obey the law, thats all shutting fundi mosques and bookshops would help that

Wait............ how is stopping freedom of speech by closing mosques and bookshops part of 'british customs and morals'????

You can't have it both ways you hypocritical buffoon.

such wit - we did not allow nazi meetings in the uk in WW 2 its our freedom we care about not yours. you had your global jihad and lost

"Do you realise that you are an exact mirror image if the people you claim to hate?

what people are these that i clsim to hate? your words not mine, Ya'qub you seem to have lost the plot stop rambling and answer my point it wartime right?

no, its not wartime. its a policing issue.

However even they can be blinkered sometimes when bad poetry can get you convicted of terrorism, but actual explosives get you lesser convictions just because the perpetrator is not muslim.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

its a jihad thats a war, did they not tell you? by the way the bnp nutter was sent to prison was he not? shutting the fundi mosques would help would it not?

tom wrote:
its a jihad thats a war, did they not tell you? by the way the bnp nutter was sent to prison was he not?
for 6 months. for having the largest haul of explosives in uk history. its a kids sentence, that. Others got off more lightly.

tom wrote:
shutting the fundi mosques would help would it not?

I made you an offer in the other topic. Get a recorder. even your mobile phone. Go to the mosque and record away.

If they are doing anything to promote hatred, broadcast it, give it to the police. they will be shut down.

But I think you will be surprised at how wrong what you have been told is.

Most of the angry guys do not preach from mosques. Mosques are established and have standards. They need places with less standards, where they can preach without being asked for references or sources. someone on youtube or maybe a group of stoned out friends. Mosques and established groupls challenge this.

So if you want to get rid of extremists, you should be SUPPORTING mosques.

But before you can do that, please investigate. Go into them yourself. use your own eyes instead of listening to hearsay.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

tom wrote:
Ya'qub you seem to have lost the plot stop rambling and answer my point it wartime right?

No. It is not war time. There is no global jihad.

If there are folks who say there is one going on right now, they don't represent me. They don't represent the vast majority of the people on this forum either. You might have better luck with other Muslim groups.

Gentleness and kindness were never a part of anything except that it made it beautiful, and harshness was never a part of anything except that it made it ugly.

Through cheating, stealing, and lying, one may get required results but finally one becomes

Dawud wrote:
tom wrote:
Ya'qub you seem to have lost the plot stop rambling and answer my point it wartime right?

No. It is not war time. There is no global jihad.

If there are folks who say there is one going on right now, they don't represent me. They don't represent the vast majority of the people on this forum either. You might have better luck with other Muslim groups.

no 9/11/ 7/7 no jihad - no nigerian trouser explodersaying he represents thousands no doubt bib hidin' is your candidate for the nobelpeace prize?

no fundi mosques - what utter rubbish no fundi bookshops either i suppose?

there is a war going on you fired your best shots and lost. to be candid i am not bothered if i upset a few "sensible non-violent democratic muslims, if that helps to save thousands of innocent westerners so be it if you sre sincere go help queen rania

I assume that the on boxing day to you represents a crusade?

Do you agree with and condone such actions?

9/11 was carried out by a bunch of arabs who were angry at US bases on their countries. 7/7 was carried out by asians angry at the US and UK wars that had since been started... I assume that the between 100,000 and 2 million lives lost is Iraq is small change to you?

Before the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan, there was no one trying to attack the UK.

Even those two events.... 19 involved in one and 4 in the other. 23 people. and a few more organisers. round it up to 30 people. Do you call that a global jihad?

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

no your leaders call it a global jihad like bin hidin' snyway we are bored by the same tired old excuses

did you not learn that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction? perhaps it was a nigerian who burned down the mosque? at least nobody was hurt

you hsd the jihsd snd lost perhaps you could try peace as you are useless at war. tom

bin laden is not my leader and was a lackey of the US for a large part of his life.

He has no religious authority.

as for action = reaction, if the US had not been meddling in the Arab countries, he would not have been able to recruit them to carry out the atrocities.

I am not against peace and I do not see peacefulness as an insult, so I agree. lets all be peaceable.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

You wrote:
bin laden is not my leader and was a lackey of the US for a large part of his life.

He has no religious authority.

as for action = reaction, if the US had not been meddling in the Arab countries, he would not have been able to recruit them to carry out the atrocities.

I am not against peace and I do not see peacefulness as an insult, so I agree. lets all be peaceable.

why is what happened in arab countries any buisaness of pakistanis? if bin hidin'has no religious authority why is her referred to as sheikh? who has authority in the sunni world - that would be obeyed - nobody enjoy your jihad

The people carrying out 9/11 were not pakistanis but arabs.

the uk attrocities were much later after the US was in afghanistan and Iraq and Bush had used words such as crusade which manage to cement the wrong attitudes in the minds of people...

as for why people should care... basic humanity. as a human you should care and not want other humans to suffer. Moreover, you should not want to be one causing the siffering - which the UK and the US governments have caused.

the reaction was wrong, but it was a reaction to what was happening around the world.

OBL is not a shaykh. He is mostly referred to by name or by initials, rarely with a shaykh before it. If people do call him that, ask them.

and for arguing against these people, there have been many scholars who have argued what they are doing is wrong, while there are like a couple who argue that within limits, their actions can be allowed.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

[quote=You]The people carrying out 9/11 were not pakistanis but arabs. and 7/7and all the various failed plots?

the uk attrocities were much later after the US was in afghanistan and Iraq and Bush had used words such as crusade which manage to cement the wrong attitudes in the minds of people...
it may be a matter for the un and International law, its no business of yours and if you are upset well, who cares? you just have to respect the law and our mores and customs, as part of the deal implied by living in the uk

as for why people should care... basic humanity. as a human you should care and not want other humans to suffer. like OBL and his Baader Meinhof islamist stormtroopers?

the reaction was wrong, but it was a reaction to what was happening around the world.that is no excuse mob rule in other words is it ok for hindus to blow up you and your family because of what happened in bOmbay, or muslim atrocities in kashmir?

OBL is not a shaykh. He is mostly referred to by name or by initials, rarely with a shaykh before it. If people do call him that, ask them. i cannot be bothered, we are all used to muslim excuses and Taqiyya and kitman we are not stupid

and for arguing against these people, there have been many scholars who have argued what they are doing is wrong, agin who cares - strocities continue as does your whinging when its pointed out that islam is inherently violent so sgree that we should shut fundi mosques and bookshops in the uk - you are one of us or one of them. its a war right enjoy you jihad

You don't seem to believe me Tom, so I'm going to make it really simple. Some Muslims fall into your stereotypes, but as for the vast majority of people on this forum, I think I can speak for them when I say:

We do not think its OK to strap bombs on to yourself, go find some civilians and blow yourself up.

We do not think its OK to hijack planes and use them to kill civilians.

We do not think its OK to hijack planes full stop.

We do not believe that there is a global jihad going on.

We do not believe that there is a secret jihad going on.

We do accept or support people like OBL, Omar Bakri and whoever's today's flavour of the day calling for people to commit terrorist acts. Let me make this clear. They are misguided, evil people.

We do not think its OK to preach murder and suicide bombings.

Gentleness and kindness were never a part of anything except that it made it beautiful, and harshness was never a part of anything except that it made it ugly.

Through cheating, stealing, and lying, one may get required results but finally one becomes

fine, so what are you doing to stop these mad people implementing
their plans? do you agree tht shutting fundi moques and bookshops would be a useful start tom

tom wrote:
we did not allow nazi meetings in the uk

there were plenty of nazi sympathisers in the uk pre ww2 and during, including one Queen Mother (who was 'queen' at the time).

tom wrote:
in WW 2 its our freedom we care about not yours. you had your global jihad and lost

All my grandparents fought in WW2 thank you very much. I have no ancestors who have ever fought for 'Islam', in fact my great great uncle was a general for Queen victoria's army and was in charge of the British army who invaded Sudan and killed lots of innocent people.

Don't just do something! Stand there.

tom wrote:
do you agree tht shutting fundi moques and bookshops would be a useful start tom

Which ones are the fundi mosques? If they are preaching something wrong, the police should be made aware of this and provided evidence. I do not want my local mosque to be telling the people coming to it to go kill themselves and others and I can gladly say that it doesn't.

More than that - why do I have to take a stance against the extremists? Its not like I told them to do what they are doing. Just like you did not tell those people to burn down that mosque. I assume you will not spend sleepless nights hunting the arsonists in that case... I can only be responsible for my own actions.

(that is slightly disingenious since this website IS combating such views, but that is different from my personal stance of "why should I?" - Just because they are Muslim, it does not mean I speak to or for them.)

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

tom wrote:
fine, so what are you doing to stop these mad people implementing
their plans? do you agree tht shutting fundi moques and bookshops would be a useful start tom

I would agree. However that action would scare me a little, because who decides who is or isn't an extremist?

Gentleness and kindness were never a part of anything except that it made it beautiful, and harshness was never a part of anything except that it made it ugly.

Through cheating, stealing, and lying, one may get required results but finally one becomes

your uncle was lord kitchener? who dealt most efficiently with the "mahdi" forces at Omdurman perhaps he was with the irish fusiliers? prince Teck was there too none of the indian army was there but we did deploy some egyptian troops. here for 1000 years and fought under KItchener? sorry, but i strongly supect you are simply bullshitting us

why would shutting a few mosques and bookshops scare you? the security services can decide which ones tom

tom wrote:
why would shutting a few mosques and bookshops scare you? the security services can decide which ones tom

They already do - its called following the law and if mosques break them, they will be held accountable.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

but we did not allow enemy organisations to exist in the uk during WW2 why should we now?

The Daily Express says otherwise.

EDIT - I think it was the Daily Mail actually, which was sympathetic to Hitler and Mussolini.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

obviously you are an idiot. lordbeaverbrook the express owner wasfor minister for producing aircraft and lord rothermere ran the mail ehich was pro appeasement so what?

you might note that all germans and italians were interned because we did not want "an enmy within" have a nice jihad

read the edit. Daily Mail.

>Rothermere was a friend and supporter of both Benito Mussolini and Adolf Hitler, which influenced the Mail's political stance towards them up to 1939.[23][24] Rothermere visited and corresponded with Hitler. On 1 October 1938, Rothermere sent Hitler a telegram in support of Germany's invasion of the Sudetenland, and expressing the hope that 'Adolf the Great' would become a popular figure in Britain. However, this was tempered by an awareness of the military threat from the resurgent Germany, of which he warned J.C. Davidson. Rothermere had an executive plane built by the Bristol Aeroplane Company which, with a speed of 307 mph, was faster than any fighter. In 1935, this plane was presented to the RAF on behalf of the Daily Mail where it became the Bristol Blenheim bomber.[25]

In 1937, the Mail's chief war correspondent, George Ward Price, to whom Mussolini once wrote in support of him and the newspaper, published a book, I Know These Dictators, in defence of Hitler and Mussolini. Evelyn Waugh was sent as a reporter for the Mail to cover the anticipated Italian invasion of Ethiopia.

In 1938, as persecution of the Jews in Europe escalated, the Mail objected to their seeking asylum in Britain. “The way stateless Jews from Germany are pouring in from every port of this country is becoming an outrage. The number of aliens entering the country through the back door is­ a problem to which the Daily Mail has repeatedly pointed.”

Rothermere and the Mail supported Neville Chamberlain's policy of appeasement, particularly during the events leading up to the Munich Agreement. In 2005, the British Foreign Office disclosed previously secret letters from Rothermere addressed to Hitler from the summer of 1939, in which he congratulated the German leader on his annexation of Czechoslovakia, urged him to invade Romania, and called Hitler's work "great and superhuman".

Courtesy of . the highlights are mine, the content is theirs.

oh, and I have no need to fight you, not to force you to change your actions or beliefs. I can live with people who disagree with me.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

you seem to have totally missed the point again in your strange glee the issue is not agreeing or not with you, the issue is the enemy within and that is you and your chums, enemy aliens in the great global jihad enjoy and the fundi mosques and bookshops are where the jihadi contagion spreads which i s hy we should shut them you obviously have no intention of being anything other than a pain in the butt to the uk, and a potentially dangerous one that is ignoring the undesirable side effects of your strange middle-eastern superstition tom

we did not allow nazi organisations in the uk in ww2, and in case they did not teach you this in the karachi al quds junior school the uk won the war enjoy the rest of your jihad

which ones are the fundi mosques? Please point them out. With evidence. If you have evidence that a mosque is doing something that is illegal, I am more than sure that the police will be acting on that evidence post haste.

Without that evidence, all you are doing is blowing hot air.

I am sure most mosques will let you in and record their sermons etc, let you get them translated, maybe even explain them to you in person if you so want.

If there are "fundi mosques", I want to know about them too, but so far I think it is the far right and racists who use them as an excuse to attack muslims and muslim institutions as a whole.

If you have found a msoque that is telling its people to kill you, by all means let us know. I am sure many Muslims will willingly will stand shoulder to shoulder with you.

But until you provide the evidence, it is hot air being blown by a racist bigot.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

tom wrote:
your uncle was lord kitchener? who dealt most efficiently with the "mahdi" forces at Omdurman perhaps he was with the irish fusiliers? prince Teck was there too none of the indian army was there but we did deploy some egyptian troops. here for 1000 years and fought under KItchener? sorry, but i strongly supect you are simply bullshitting us

As well as being in charge of occupied sudan, he contributed to unrest caused by britain in (what was then called) Palestine.

Don't just do something! Stand there.

Ya'qub wrote:
tom wrote:
your uncle was lord kitchener? who dealt most efficiently with the "mahdi" forces at Omdurman perhaps he was with the irish fusiliers? prince Teck was there too none of the indian army was there but we did deploy some egyptian troops. here for 1000 years and fought under KItchener? sorry, but i strongly supect you are simply bullshitting us

As well as being in charge of occupied sudan, he contributed to unrest caused by britain in (what was then called) Palestine.

.... your uncle has a wikipedia page?

#Before you look at the thorns of the rose , look at it's beauty. Before you complain about the heat of the sun , enjoy it's light. Before you complain about the blackness of the night, think of it's peace and quiet... #

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