Quran and Hadeeth. If you people want to debate then the only source that we are aloud to use are Quran and Hadeeth.... NOTHING ELSE. All these Shia beliefs are told by a bunch of enemies of Islam who could be Jews or what not... who cares. If anybody thinks themselves more pious than Abu Bakr Siddique or Umar Ibn Khattab, then they are even worser than the Kaafirs of today. Just because you believe the shahada doesn't give you the space to chat nonsense of the prominent Sahabas. May Allah guide the Shia Muslims back to the truth or if not... give them a big azaab that will demolish them from the face of the Earth. AMEEN. ps. Saif-Ullaah title was given to Khalid bin Waleed by whom?... The Prophet Muhammad (saw). You changed it to saif us shaitaan... You are not Ahlul Bait Shias... YOU ARE AHLUS SHAITAAN!!! lol

Usama wrote:

If anybody thinks themselves more pious than Abu Bakr Siddique or Umar Ibn Khattab, then they are even worser than the Kaafirs of today.

Strong words... but since you also said

Usama wrote:

Quran and Hadeeth. If you people want to debate then the only source that we are aloud to use are Quran and Hadeeth...

you need to back up what you said or refrain from such words. provide a verse of the qur'an that says those who disrespect Hadhrat Abu Bakr AsSiddeeq (ra) have lost their faith?

The position of The AhlusSunnah is NOT that that is kufr - since that is not from the sources, but that it is extremely wrong and breaks other rules (truthfulness, backbiting/slander, presenting false testimony and more).

If you disagree, please present your sources. From the Qur'an and Sunnah. No itty bitty molbi will be accepted here since that is your own standard.

you have clearly got personal problems pal. who told you about all these alegations about the sahabas.you asking for proof...? why should i provide proof to a jahil. you said "The position of The AhlusSunnah is NOT that that is kufr - since that is not from the sources, but that it is extremely wrong and breaks other rules (truthfulness, backbiting/slander, presenting false testimony and more)" ... U JUST DESCRIBED A SHIA. and i dont need proof for that. how can u prove the shia allegations? u cant. thats because you people are the biggest mushriks and bidaa innovaters ever. i can just shut u up with 1 thing that kameena khomeni said regardingfulfilling persnal desire! I SPIT. u dirty shias are jahils. u take word of mouth more authentic than an actuall sahih hadeeth. you people dont need hidayah, u need a brain. things u people do in the name of Islam... dr zakir naik should knock sum sense into your heads. the proof is out there pal but it only works on people who seek the truth eg; non-jahil ignorant.

I am asking you to stand by your own statement, nothing more.

You said what the requirement for evidence is, not me.

(and no, I am not shia)

You are just... poisonous and incapable of thinking. I am just asking you to back up what you are saying, instead you are simply doing the same thing you accuse them of doing - throwing curses, being defensive, cursing a bit more.

So how does that make you any better than them?

If you are better than them, you would provide evidence for what you say.

(Khomenei is not "the shia" but "a shia".)

Besides, if I really am ignorant, then surely you are duty bound to educate me using the sources that you mentioned - the qur'an and the sunnah.

i didn't call u a kaafir pal get ure facts right... i said URE WORSER THAN THE KAAFIRS. and what faith have u got to lose anyways u clown. to everybody... google khomeni child abuse or check on youtube. these shias even rape underaged children and say it is jayiz. if ure sunni they will rape you. shiaism is being sold to dirty kafir shaytan humans who seek these harami pleasures. if you shias have got any guts than come and diss a sahaba on front of my face

All unsubstantiated, none of it using verses from the Qur'an or ahadith.

Please obey your own rules for evidence, and not the rules you say the shia abide by.

If you do the same thing as them, what is the difference?

now if that doesnt prove it than nothing will get through your head... mysterious non shia person. basically there is nothing these shias really believe in... at the end of the day its Allah who knows best. they dont take our proof as authentic hadeeth as they take something from a shia imams mouth. the enemy of Islam has been working really hard. i will not reply back anymore because i am busy but inshallah 2morro i will tell my brother to put some video sites on this forum.

In other words... this guy is asking for proof that raping little kids is aloud. this is beyond debate pal if u know what i mean. ps; stop taking them sleeping pills... ure just not worth it. PEACE.

usama wrote:

at the end of the day its Allah who knows best.

exactly.

so why are you blabbering on?

usama wrote:

now if that doesnt prove it than nothing will get through your head... mysterious non shia person. basically there is nothing these shias really believe in... at the end of the day its Allah who knows best. they dont take our proof as authentic hadeeth as they take something from a shia imams mouth. the enemy of Islam has been working really hard. i will not reply back anymore because i am busy but inshallah 2morro i will tell my brother to put some video sites on this forum.

or you could not tell him to do that? What would it prove?

You yourself said not to take the word of a man or a person. I am just asking you to not be hypocritical and live by the same standards you set yourself.

It would be hypocritical not to.

and just for clarity... you said shias are worse than kaafirs... so does that also mean they are kaafirs too? (and any answer longer than a yes or a no will make my head hurt. so keep it simple.)

Doctor docter it hurts when i hear more than one word... never heard that once before. i said it once and i'll say it again ... JAHIL JAHIL JAHIL JAHIL JAHIL JAHIL JAHIL JAHIL JAHIL JAHIL JAHIL JAHIL JAHIL JAHIL JAHIL JAHIL JAHIL JAHIL JAHIL JAHIL JAHIL JAHIL JAHIL ... prove to me ure not. if u want me to debate on ure level then here it is... TAG...URE IT!!! i aint got time for u kids... jana

usama wrote:

Doctor docter it hurts when i hear more than one word... never heard that once before. i said it once and i'll say it again ... JAHIL JAHIL JAHIL JAHIL JAHIL JAHIL JAHIL JAHIL JAHIL JAHIL JAHIL JAHIL JAHIL JAHIL JAHIL JAHIL JAHIL JAHIL JAHIL JAHIL JAHIL JAHIL JAHIL ... prove to me ure not. if u want me to debate on ure level then here it is... TAG...URE IT!!! i aint got time for u kids... jana

lol.

usama wrote:

prove to me ure not.

It is actually your job to cure the jahaalah. Otherwise you are a hypocrite of the nth degree, making a statement that you must go by the Qur'an and sunnah, and then not using them yourself.

I am not saying you need to prove that khomenei was wrong. He was just one person. You are maligning a whole group of people and calling them "worse than kaafirs" (a phrase which you have not yet given meaning to) but since you do not present your evidence, your posts are just slander and going against ahadith where the Prophet told you not to take a bite of a brothers back (or was it generic flesh?).

Just in case you have not figures it out, I am not debating you. I am simply asking you to provide evidence. to... cure me of this jahilness. Make yourself useful.

many scholars have declared them kafir, even ali RA himself called the shias deaf blind and dumb, hussain RA cursed them, so their are certain sects of the shias that are kafirs, however overal many scholars have declared them kafirs and provided the evidence to call them that

u should google `cure for jahiliyya`

you say they are my brother¿ no pal... this isnt geebah. your just a waste of time and space. they are the enemy of Sunni people and what to do to the enemies of Islam who throw hidaya guidace and knowlege right back at ure face? U must understand whats next....

Prophet Mohammed (s.a.w) said:My ummahwill be fragmented into seventy-three sects. All of them will be in Hell Fire except one sect.They (the Companions) said: Allah's Messenger, which is that? Whereupon he said: It is one to which I and my companions belong.Transmitted by Tirmidhi.- Hadees 171   Narrated by – Abdullah ibn Amr

these things are in our books so how come u are the only Smart man or even better a better q, so how come the shiaa who are minority saw it and all the Sunni ( majority)didnt see it? and where??? in OUR books??? man u think we are blind?i mean ok thats ur excuse but man... make a good excuse.. is it even smart to lie to urself with that silly excuse ??nways feel free.and dont use the majority minority game with me... bcz Ali(ra) had a wise idea about that... u wont like it ... too bad.now if a person now read about Salman al farissi... and hated him... as a shiaa, what do u say about this person? is he a good muslim or a bad one???now the same answer u will give about how much u Respect Salman i will give it too about the first 3 caliphs (RA) .... i do Respect them a lot, i dont worship them nor anything sick like that.i just Respect them and bcz i Respect them i will not allow anyone not u nor anyone bigger than u to insult them ... clear?thats me and thats how i think....

Yes what we need to be muslims is to believe that there is One God Allah and to believe in the prophets(as) and the books and the day of judgment etc...... but also read the quran, and also read that in every book be it shiaism or sunnism.... insulting ppl like some shiaa do or mocking isnt from islam.... so if one shiaa who do this isnt kaffir well at least, he isnt innocent and he will be judged.... so i dont know how its easy for shiaa who insult to sleep with joy '' that man im insulting the companions but heyyy im still a muslim !!'' that without mentioning the kind of shiaa, who slander aisha(ra) nor those who call the sahaba(ra) kaffir... bcz then dont even ask .. they made themselves kaffir by saying that believers are kaffir.some shiaa dont like how some sunni call them kaffir but shiaa see that they have the right to call who they dont like as Kaffir?? thats not even logic, they treat others the way they dont like to be treated ==>>> yes contradiction.

ok, you win.

I should not have asked you not to be hypocritical in your first post.

I apologise.

Asking you to stand to the same level of evidence as you demanded in others was obviously wrong of me.

I apologise again.

When the Prophet was alive, the disbelievers and hypocrites tried their utmost to hurt him and one of the methods they used to do this was to target those close to him (i.e. his family). One such famous incident is the event of Al-Ifk, in which they accused the Prophet’s wife of adultery. It was such attacks on his family members that prompted the Prophet to warn again and again about honoring his family. This warning was especially in regards to the females in his family, as it is well-known that Arabs would debase the women in a man’s family as a means to hurt the man himself. The women in a man’s life are his sensitive spot; a man will be less hurt about someone insulting his own honor and more hurt about someone insulting the honor of his wife.The sayings of the Prophet made it clear that it was important to protect the honor of the Ahlel Bayt, especially the female members of his household.

There were even Quranic injunctions in regards to honoring the Prophet’s wives, warning the Muslims to respect them by not entering the Prophet’s house and looking at them or even annoying them, referring to them as the Mothers of the Believers. The intensity with which the Quran and Hadith advocated the protection of the Prophetic Household prompted certain evil elements to devise new ways of harming Ahlel Bayt as a means to get at the Prophet of Islam. It was then that the founders of the Shia movement decided that the best way to turn the Muslims against the Prophetic Household (i.e. the Ahlel Bayt) was to change the very meaning of the word “Ahlel Bayt” in the eyes of the masses. So they went about this task, and they began to say that the Prophet’s wives were not part of the Ahlel Bayt and neither were three of his daughters.So it was that the Shia masses began cursing the Prophet’s family members (i.e. his wives) and even denying the existence of his daughters, all in the name of honoring the Ahlel Bayt

The irony of this should not be lost on anybody. How is it that the imaginary Dajjal Muhammad ibn Hasan al-Askari (the so-called Hidden Imam) was a part of the Prophetic Household, whereas the people who actually lived in the Prophet’s house were cursed as traitors, including Aisha and Hafsa? How long can this farce continue? How long can the Shia masses operate under the silly assumption that they are the lovers of Ahlel Bayt, when they are the ones who curse members within the Ahlel Bayt?The Shia say they follow the Sunnah as transmitted through the Ahlel Bayt. What kind of bold-faced lie is this? The Prophet’s wives were part of the Prophet’s family, and yet the Shia reject all of the Hadith narrated by them, declaring them to be fabricators of Hadith! It could be said that Abdullah Ibn Saba–the founder of Shi’ism–is laughing in his grave right now because he duped such a large portion of the Muslims, getting them to curse the very Ahlel Bayt that they claim to revere.

Ibn Saba was a Jewish Rabbi who pretended to convert to Islam in order to start this deviant sect with the express intent of not only dividing the Ummah but to hurt the Prophet and his family specifically. He knew that it would be impossible for him to call the people towards harming the Ahlel Bayt, so he decided to change the meaning of the word so that his deviant followers would end up cursing the real members of Ahlel Bayt, all in the name of the Ahlel Bayt. What better methodology to bring someone’s family down than to pit some members of that family against others?We ask Allah to send His Blessings down upon all of the Prophet’s wives, as well as all the 11 Imams (not 12 as the Shias claim).

I have been told that yanabi.com would love to have you - they (allegedly) love sunni/shia debates.

Since I am not a shia, I do not feel the need to defend them and frankly, some of their practices are at best.

My ask of you was (past tense) was to use actual fact instead of hyperbole. but since you struggle with that, can I point you towards yanabi.com? They may appreciate the raw emotion.

usama wrote:

Ibn Saba was a Jewish Rabbi who pretended to convert to Islam in order to start this deviant sect with the express intent of not only dividing the Ummah but to hurt the Prophet and his family specifically.

Who is he and what proof is there? I would thinking casting judgement in issues of belief is a job for God, not for us.

(EDIT - a quick Google suggests that there was no historical record of him - sunni historians reject his existence, shia historians call him a deviant (some say even put to death by Hadhrat Ali (ra) himself).

This is a debate not worth having since well, what will it prove?

You are arguing against a diverse view of opinions and the generalisations are leaving your posts innacurate. There are things you can legitimately say:

1. Those who believe that qur'an is flawed do not believe.
2. Slandering people said in the qur'an to be pure violates number 1 (hance covering Hadhrat Aisha Siddeeqa (ra) too).
3. Hadhrat Ali himself has multiple childen named Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthmaan, so you cannot say he considered them his enemies.

Those are facts. things you can tick in a box.

but hyperbole is just hot air and means nothing. it does you no favours when even sunnis see you as ranting as a lunatic, forget anyone else.

You wrote:

ok, you win.

I should not have asked you not to be hypocritical in your first post.

I apologise.

Asking you to stand to the same level of evidence as you demanded in others was obviously wrong of me.

I apologise again.

please forgive my language but... are u blind aswell as being stupid, you dumb s""", which part of them shia aqusations looks like Quran and hadeeth? and u want me to debate with Quran and hadeeth¿ what did i say b 4? look at it again and realise that i was telling them shor shias to debate with Quran and hadeeth and to prove their allegations... AND YOU KNOW AND I KNOW THAT THEY CANT! who is the hypocrite? Is there anything written against the sahabas etc. no there never was. its just shias who think it right to go about doing whatever they will. shias are totally brainwashed by their extreme methods of worship be it mentally or phiscally, that they actually scared of themselves and they dont know it or try to deny it by neglecting the truth.

ok

Hahaha.

This place can hardly go a week without some random 'enthusiast' popping up somewhere a bit contro.

Very entertaining tbf.

the stuff you read wasn't written by me... but to call it ranting!!! there is a moulvi who knows how to fix people like u... 3 back hand slaps and then we'll see what u call it . no seriously man, ure like a chewing gum stuck in a shias chaddee! IF there ever was an international debate on sunni and shia... then the sunnis would surely win... thats just common sense. then theres people like you whos food doesnt get digested unless he gets the last word in. i'll tell u what... I WILL BECOME SHIA if u could prove shia is right. who in the world would deny the truth, nobody. but i do know that in Iran there is noone called AbuBakr,Umar or Usmaan. and if there was then they would kill them. i dont think quoting Quran and hadeeth would stop shias from killing him.thats what i meant. there it is. they rape and kll sunni sisters in Iraq who is also a child and you debate in this forum. i dont care if its debate or not or if ure subject is more important than mine... ure still JAHIL!!!! LOOOOOOOOL