Independence
As-Salaam,
Reflecting upon people; Yaum-e-Azadi, Dita e Pavarësisë, Sete de Setembro, Ден на независноста, स्वतंत्रता, Yom Ha'atzmaut, Gwangbokjeol, Grito de Dolores, Araw ng Kalayaan, Święto Niepodległości, Fourth of July, Día de la Independencia, Independence Day.
Wikipedia describes it as “an annual celebration commemorating the anniversary of a nation's assumption of independent statehood, usually after ceasing to be a colony or part of another state, more rarely after the end of a military occupation. Most countries honour their respective independence day as a national holiday and some countries or nations' independence-date honours are contested.”
What’s your definition of the Independence Day?
Should it be considered as being patriotic or a symbol of freedom?
How ‘free’ are the countries that are independent?
Should we as Muslims dismiss such issues on the basis that it was once and still is a pagan ritual? 
Are you patriotic?
Does Islam allow Patriotism? What are the limits?
What makes a Nation National?
(Apologies to the forum if this topic is already discussed!)
24 June 2005
18 hours 39 min
???
I want my Dummay!
31 March 2008
15 hours 46 min
wooops, forgot to place me rolling eyes
EDIT: done. I think banning something because it is a 'pagan ritual' is not a valid point against an issue! it shouldn't be used at all... and yet schools and teachers still use it... why?
Fly like time... and time your flight!
21 November 2006
16 hours 37 min
You just put up a definition, why should we give you ours?!
rolling eyes or no rolling eyes, this doesn't make any sense. Pagans are people who worship nature, forests, rocks, stars etc. This is nothing to do with nationalism/patriotism.
Personally I don't see how identifying yourself as a member of a 'country', different from all other 'countries' fits in with Islam's approach to humanity: we are all children of Adam (as). Of course we can be identified because of where we're from, e.g. Salman al Farsi (ra) means 'Salman the Persian', and Imam Bukhari was named because of where he came from.
But chest-beating, flag-waving nationalism is very different from something like that. It leads directly to xenophobia and racism.
This question doesn't make sense at all. The word 'national' means 'of a nation'.
2∞&➔
28 October 2005
17 min 17 sec
Patriotism is haraam in islam.
One deen,One ummah
21 November 2006
16 hours 37 min
That's all well and good. Have you got a reference of a clear hadith or ayat from the Qur'an?
n.b. patriotism is different from nationalism.
2∞&➔
31 March 2008
15 hours 46 min
I was refering to the fact that it links to triblism ... what i was taught is that, during Pophet's time, the pagans were very strict abt the tribes they belonged to and obviously supported it in any way to keep it to the top of the list ie. better than other tribes (competing which eventually lead to blood shed and racism)...
it is different in a way because tribes are made up of ppl, but nationalism involves land...
National also means 'state-run' (ie. independant
) ... i'll have to rephrase that question i think!
Fly like time... and time your flight!
24 June 2005
18 hours 39 min
Ya Shaikh Funzo - thankyou for your fatwa. and for going into great details in explaining this issue.
I am in awe.
I want my Dummay!
28 October 2005
17 min 17 sec
Leave the petty insults to your xbox live gaming but i thought you would use your logic and work out for yourself that it is haraam.
said, as collected in the books of Abu Dawood:
The Prophet Muhammad
"He is not one of us who calls for ‘asabiyyah, (nationalism) or who fights for ‘asabiyyah or who dies for ‘asabiyyah.”
One deen,One ummah
28 October 2005
17 min 17 sec
Muhammad ibn Ya'qub (al-Kulayni), from `Ali ibn Ibrahim, from his father, from al-Nawfali, from al-Sakuni, who reports on the authority of Abu `Abd Allah (al-Imam al-Sadiq ) (A) that the Prophet
said: "Whosoever possesses in his heart 'asabiyyah (prejudice in any of its forms such as tribalism, racism, nationalism) even to the extent of a mustard seed, God will raise him on the Day of Resurrection with the (pagan) Beduins of the Jahiliyyah (the pre-Islamic era).'
Al-Kulayni, Usul al-Kafi (Intisharat `Ilmiyyah Islamiyyah, Tehran), vol. III (Arabic text with Persian translation by Sayyid Jawad Mustafawi), p. 419.
One deen,One ummah
28 October 2005
17 min 17 sec
What i meant was nationalism but patriotism is a form of nationalism depending on the extent and of course what is in your heart.
One deen,One ummah
24 June 2005
18 hours 39 min
See, in your clear cut-case, you have gone from nationalism to patriotism and back. Along the way you also visited the land of prejudice.
And then, Ya'qub mentioned that some prominent Muslims are known by their place of origin. Add to that the qur'an saying we were born into tribes so that we would have recognition. Not so clear cut after all. It all depends on the definition of nationalism.
A few years ago I came across a hadith which went something like "Nationalism is supporting your people in something which is wrong." (not got a source)
In short, as long as you do not support/do anything which is wrong, you CAN be nationalistic.
As an example you can be British/English, but islamically, you are not allowed to support wrong actions being done by the UK.
Need I point out my other rant from a few days ago?
As for insults, I'll stick with them. far more amusing than serious replies such as this one.
I want my Dummay!
31 March 2008
15 hours 46 min
Can we be patriotic about the religion we belong to? its the same thing but a specific land isn't involved...
can we refer to the Muslim Ummah as a 'nation'?
*Funzo: is there a reason to the qoute that you provided up there?
Fly like time... and time your flight!
28 October 2005
17 min 17 sec
Do you not see the links between patriotism and nationalism
Patriotism-
love for or devotion to one's country
nationalism-loyalty and devotion to a nation.
Patriotism is only used for linking back to a nation of birth or nation with ancestorial history, whereas nationalism can be used universally for any nation whether it is linked to you by your heritage or not, the difference between the two is very small. But i would like to say that the first post i made about patriotism being haraam was a mistake by myself it should have been nationalism is haraam but im sure you can see the huge simmilarities of both.
One deen,One ummah
24 June 2005
18 hours 39 min
"similar" does not mean "the same" and the arabic term does not necessarily have equal meaning in the English language. This matters, especially so when you are passing fatwas. (You have ignored the rest of the post contradicting your fatwa).
I want my Dummay!
19 August 2007
35 min 13 sec
I'm British, proud of it, not at an arrogant level. But I'm also Muslim and I wouldn't hold a part of British culture if Islam contradicted it, like drinking alcohol. I'd support England/GB in sport, I like fish and chips and baked beans.
Is that haram?
Chin up, mate! Life's too short.
24 June 2005
51 min 58 sec
Only if you enjoy it
I can handle clouds, but cant fight with an eclipse.
19 August 2007
35 min 13 sec
Mufti Seraph, we meet again.
Chin up, mate! Life's too short.
28 October 2005
17 min 17 sec
I forgot to mention that was not me issuing a fatwa but giving my opinion and the arabic word used can use to denote anything under the category of nationalism racism facism patriotism, its not restricted to nationalism. As for your similar not the same argument, ive explained that they are basically the same thing.
One deen,One ummah
28 October 2005
17 min 17 sec
you answered your own question.
One deen,One ummah
19 August 2007
35 min 14 sec
Right, mate. So you agree that it's halal so long as you're not arrogant about it?
Chin up, mate! Life's too short.
31 March 2008
15 hours 46 min
so its not 'haram' but you have to be cautious about the limits that one may exceed?
i'm confused... in one statement it's a direct answer but in another statement (the cascading arguement) we find that the original statement isn't true at all??
Fly like time... and time your flight!
19 August 2007
35 min 14 sec
So long as you're not arrogant about it, it's halal, (AHA).
Chin up, mate! Life's too short.
31 March 2008
15 hours 46 min
so what's the limit??
eg. if Eng was on war with france who would you support or lets say it was pakistan and eng... then who??
war's one thing, sport's another! when the matters get serious how many ppl are still patriotic abt their country??
Fly like time... and time your flight!
24 June 2005
18 hours 39 min
The one that is in the right.
I want my Dummay!
Pakistan of course
24 June 2005
18 hours 39 min
Why?
Why would you support Pakistan in a comflict between England and France?
I want my Dummay!
21 November 2006
16 hours 37 min
Nations are just areas of land that people have decided to separate for a variety of reasons. The general trend in the world seems to be going away from huge, diverse-population nations to smaller nations with distinct characteristics and little diversity. This (IMO) is more likely to lead to racism/xenophobia in the future.
e.gs of previously huge countries which have split up:
Russia, Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia (wow I spelt that correctly first time!), Austria, Hungary, Syria...
Other countries which might split-up/'break off' from the mainland (or at least who seem to want to)
Basque region of Spain, Belgium, Scotland, Albania, Aceh region of Indonesia, Tibet, part of Georgia wants to leave Russia, Southern Philippines, Kurdistan, the rest of Iraq, Chechnya...these are just off the top of my head, I'm sure there are more.
This includes many Muslim-majority populations. In some cases they seem to want to live apart from the non-Muslim mainstream culture, but in other areas they seem to feel a greater sense of belonging as part of their ethnic identity than solidarity to other Muslims as part of their Islamic identity.
How does this effect the topic being discussed...I have no idea.
2∞&➔
31 March 2008
15 hours 46 min
*Thank you* ... give urself a pat on the back
yes we know the principle BUT does that happen in real life??
in that manner nationalism/patriotism should be avoided?
Fly like time... and time your flight!
31 March 2008
15 hours 46 min
thats true, once we dis-own something then no one wants to go back, otherwise it'll look like that the seperation was a mistake... so isolation is the easy option
i didn't know Scotland want to break off from UK??
i missed most of the olympics opening ceremony but from what i watched, i liked the Globe ... all i want to hear now is what's happening abt Tibet?
Fly like time... and time your flight!