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[b]you obviously fit the thrid set.[/b]
salaam
you have exposed yourself, as a wahabbi under cover.
you have elevated muhammad bin abdul wahab to a reformer when it reality he was one man in history who has really damaged this deen, incited sectarianism, divided the muslims till the end of time, rejected majority of the classical scholars and set up his own cult. he has done his job and the enemies of Islam will be happy with him because mainly due to him, most muslims are split in to wahabbis and non wahabbis, true monothiest muslims or mushriks/bidati's, he has polluted, confused, ripped apart and damaged all parts of Islamic doctrine.
He has turned simple muslims into sectarianists and has taken them away from the real issues and got them fighting with each other over aqeeedah/ islamic doctrine. He was heavily backed by the saudis and as a result due to saudi money his new rulings, fatwas and rejection of classical islam have been spread all over the world especially in english.
[b]he was the first person in islamic history to label tawassul as shirk, saying anyone who makes the prophet, saint, shaykh etc as an intermediatry between him an dallah is labelled as a mushrik! anyone who goes to the tomb of the prophet is labelled as a mushrik! anyone who goes to a tomb of a saint is labelled as a msuhrik! majority o fthe classical scholars practised tawassul, went to the tomb of the prophet, went to the tomb of the great scholars and saints...so as a result he is also calling them mushriks!!!!![/b]
[b][color=red]anyone who does an act which was not done in the first three centuries of islam is called a biddati and said he will go to the hellfire, when majority of classical scholars including imam shafi (RA), nawawi, shaami, haytami et cetc all said there is such thing as bidah hasanah. he is labelling these great classical scholars as bidatis who will go to hell!!!!
ANYONE WHO REJECTS, INSULTS AND GOES AGAINST THE MAJORITY OF OUR CLASSICAL SCHOLARS IS SOMEONE WHO IS TOTALLY MISGUIDED AND IS A PERSON OF FITNA.[/color] [/b]
[b]mawlid is celebrated my most pf the muslim world[/b] today and has been so in the last 1000 years, againclassical scholars like ibn hajar asqalani, nawawi, suyuti, ibn katir, ibn jawzi, qastallani, zurqani, alusi etc etc have all said mawlid si permissible and one si rewarded- yet muhammad bin abdul wahhab said it is a bidah which will lead people to the hellfire!!!!!! [b]another massive fitna he has created today!!!![/b]
[b]sending salaat and salaam on the beloved prophet (saw)[/b] is an act carried out in the last 1000 years, muhamamd bin abdul wahhab has labelled this as bidah and shirk!!!! how damaging is that....rejecting classicalscholars again...like i said he has done a good job for the enemies of islam, as he ahs got muslims faighting against each other.
[b]
to say ya muhammad, ya rasulallah is shirk according to muhammad bin abdul wahabb! [/b]so he didnt read salaat then? (slaamu-allaika-ayyu=hanna-biyu which menas peace be upon you O PROPHET!) he has really damaged muslims.
[b]
muhammad bin abdul wahhab was an enemy of tasawwuf/spiritualism.[/b] he said to have a shaykh/peer is bidah, to practise spirutualism is bidah, to sit in a circle and do the dhikhr of allah aloud is bidah, do be part of a tariqah is a bidah..which he says will take muslims in to the hellfire! imam shafi, imam malik, imam ghazalli-the proof of islam- imam asqalani, nawawwi, ibn kathir et c and many others have said tasawuff is a part an dparcel of islam, but muhamamd bin abdul wahabb thinks he knows better and ha slabelle dour belove dclassical; scholars and most muslims as bid'atis who will go to hell!!!!!! astagfirullah.... how one have anything but hate for such a man!
[b]
muhammad bin abdul wahhab has rejected the knowledge of the unseen of the prophet (saw),[/b] and said anyone who believes that is a mushrik!!!!! naooozubillah- again rejecting classical scholars.
i can go on and on.....
this man has totally rejected our classical scholars and is far far away from the ahlus sunnah wa jamaah, he ahs created a cult, has destroyed the concept of shirk and bid'ah in islam, has divided the muslims till the day of judgement, has made muslims sectarian, has confused the muslim youth so much today its unbelievable. [b]This man is a fitnah and anyone who calls him a reformer or a reviver of the deen or someone who has purified islamic beliefs is isnsulting our classical scholars, most of the muslim ummah and should be ashamed of themselves.[/b]
im sorry for being passionate, but i will not sit back and see a man be seen as a shaykh ul islam and a reformer when he has rejected the islam of our saliheen, has made everything in the world seem as it is an act of bidah and shirk, his damage will remain with us forever!!!!!!
wasalaam
Well im not defending Abdul wahab, but Ahmed Raza khan brailwi calling anyone kaffir who didnt agree with him caused lots of divisions in sub continent. before him there were no such divisions
wahabbis who reject classical scholars and are misguided on the islamic doctrine as taught by our saliheen.they are fitnah! they accuse most of the muslim ummah of shirk and bidah!!!!
innovating brailwees who commit shirk are also lowest of the low.
two extremes!
medieval, you might think alot of ppl on this forum are brelwi, yet no one has ever stated they are, they have all tried to back their beliefs with qura, sunnah.
i cant speak for anyone else, but i reject wahabbism, brelwiism, deobandiism, salafiism! they are all sects and not ahlus sunnah wa jamaah.
this thread is on muhammad bin abdul wahhab, if u want to discuss ahmad raza then start a new thread. medieval started this topic and my post was really for him and others who call wahaab as a reformer
Muslimbrother you ask abt the Holy Prophet salallahu alayhi wa sallam. Yes it is true that He salallahu alayhi wa sallam died but just as the shaheed dies but is still believed to be alive, so the Prophets alayhim us salaatu was salaam are Alive.
This is the view of Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama'ah and this is the view taught at Darul Uloom Deoband and its affiliated branches. I suggest humbly that you contact an alim in this regard for further clarification.
Also strange that the followers of Ahmad Reza label those who show evena slight support for Shaykh Muhammad ibn AbdulWahhab as a wahhabi aswell! According to the true sunnis who follow ahmad reza tablighis, deobandis, and wahhabis are all the same and we are dirty kafirs. Subhanallah.
Yes ahmad reza was a majorly interesting scholar. Can any1 imagine travelling halfway round the world carrying lies about ulama in ones own country, on the basis of these lies getting fatawa of kufr put on the ulama of ones own country, then to return to the homeland, brandish the fatawa around that look how the hijazi and shaami and miri ulama have declared these ppl kafir. come to me and eat halwa. then the ulama contact the ualama of hijaz and shaam and misr and clarify ther position, the ulama of shaam and hijaz and mizr take back their initial fatwa and instead start to label the one who initally came as a liar, a fitnahmonger, a charlatan interested in fame and wealth. Lol sounds to funny.
Laa ilaaha illallahu Muhammadur Rasulullahi salallahu alayhi wa sallam.
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
i was just asking my bro about this sheikh...my bro says what he knows of is him being a great sheikh
i dont believe half the things
our prophet pbuh did not have the knowledge of the unseen only when he was told.
to say ya muhammed ya rasoolullah aint allowed either only when u at his grave
about sending salaat us salaam on our prophet....i dont believe he labelled this as bidah
we dont know the lies that have been made up how can a person be so sure?
ok Kuri/19.......you reject what the Ed says, please provide sufficient evidence to back your claims then....as the Ed did
The Lover is ever drunk with love;
He is free, he is mad,
He dances with ecstasy and delight.
Caught by our own thoughts,
We worry about every little thing,
But once we get drunk on that love,
Whatever will be, will be.
ɐɥɐɥ
MashaALLAH excellent post.
I agree with you on the issue of knowledge of unseen and about supplicating Ya Muhammad or Ya Rasulullah salallahu alayhi wa sallam.
Muhtarama I wouldnt pay much attention to some people, infact I have even stopped reading some ppls posts. If a small time halwa eater from bareilly can go and make HUGE lies on leading ulama of india and be followed and believed then it is even mre likely that the ppl of the same sect will believe and spread lies about Shaykh Muhammad ibn AbdulWahhab.
As stated before Shaykh was hambali, the modern salafiyyah reject following any madhab; hence we can see that the modern people who claim to follow him are infact not his true followers.
The fact is that the innovating ulama, yes not all ulama are pious, the fact is that they use religion to promote moneymaking schemes and reject truth for the sake of certain sweet dishes (thats right folks, u guessedit, the infamous HALWA) and in the process when they feel that they might lose their beloved income because of true ulama spreading truth they label them as wahhabi kafirs who hate the Prophet salallahu alayhi wa sallam etc ect.
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
to me sufficient evidence is txt related to quran hadith
like i said how do we know its all true or whether half are lies?
astagfirullah i cant believe sm hav said bad about sheikh ..how do we know he could be a waliullah.
your a wahabbi then is basically what your saying :roll:
ok if we dont know.....weve heard why he isnt a good man from the Ed, now can YOU (not med and then you agree) tell us why he was a good man or a Valih of Allah?
The Lover is ever drunk with love;
He is free, he is mad,
He dances with ecstasy and delight.
Caught by our own thoughts,
We worry about every little thing,
But once we get drunk on that love,
Whatever will be, will be.
ɐɥɐɥ
I think Muhtarama has alread said why she thinks Shaykh was a good man. She mentioned how she didnt agree with Holy Prophet salallahu alayhi wa sallam haveing knowledge of the unseen, or how she didnt agree with saying Ya Muhammad salallahu alayhi wa sallam except at the Holy Rawdhah hence its clear that because Shaykh also was against these polytheistic ideas that she thinks he may have been a good man.
why are you being so harsh to her, hayder?
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
Lol. Any1 who even suggests anything in favour of Shaykh Muhammad ibn AbdulWahhab is deemed a wahhabi and you say your not barelwi?
that is laughable. If the modern day salafiyya are guilty of branding others innovators so easily, then it is no exaggeration for us to say that he bareilwis are guilty of branding any1 who differs from them as being a vabi, or wahhabi as the urdu speakers say.
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
i am not bieng harsh
harsh isnt in my nature
i just think se says a lot without any backing and awaits your posts and agrees....getting of the hook
i want to know why she doesnt agree in certain things i.e. mawlids, salaam etc
give some evidence to support her arguement
it aint fair on Ed, he has done and you ignore what he says
The Lover is ever drunk with love;
He is free, he is mad,
He dances with ecstasy and delight.
Caught by our own thoughts,
We worry about every little thing,
But once we get drunk on that love,
Whatever will be, will be.
ɐɥɐɥ
well I could also ask why do you wait for your ed to say things?
and then agree?
you cant accuse Muhtarama of waiting for me to make points and then agree with them when you do the same thing. As far as i have seen it is the same situation with the people on your side. One person makes a point and backs it and then the rest start nodding ur heads like churchil.com add.
i think that is doublestandards.
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
nope not a brewli....still dont know what one is!!!
nor has anyone explained what Halwa has to do with anything lol
yeah....you follow Wahab dude, ur a wahabbi....you believe in what he said and follow his doctrine and you agree with his aqeeda
like Kuri does, and kinda like you do
i'd love to attend one of your madrasa's one day, to see what gets taught. your a deo as far as i know, you like wahabbi's and you claim your Ahle-Sunnah :? ...oh and your a knight from the round table
The Lover is ever drunk with love;
He is free, he is mad,
He dances with ecstasy and delight.
Caught by our own thoughts,
We worry about every little thing,
But once we get drunk on that love,
Whatever will be, will be.
ɐɥɐɥ
to say Ya rasoolallah is implying that the Prophet pbuh is omnipresent like Allah Subhanuwatallah and can hear a person when he says it. We say Ya Allah because he is present everywhere, he is all hearing and all seeing. To say Rasoolallah can hear you say certain things amounts to shirk. Omnipresence is an attribute of Allah alone.
i dont post just to say i agree.....i know the Ed, and were from the same school of thought and we share the same beliefs in the majority. so yeah, i do agree with him....pretty much always have done.
i only asked Kuri to provide evidence seeing as she swiftly brushed aside all the evidence the Ed has taken time in gathering. i merely asked her to staker her claim in favour of Wahab dude.
The Lover is ever drunk with love;
He is free, he is mad,
He dances with ecstasy and delight.
Caught by our own thoughts,
We worry about every little thing,
But once we get drunk on that love,
Whatever will be, will be.
ɐɥɐɥ
Darth vader if u dont know what a brelwi is , then how do u know what a wahabi is???
ermm did i say im a wahaabi...like i said my family just follow the quran wa sunnah.....
i did not say sheikh was a wali of allah....what i did say was how do we know he could have been..
u heard he was a bad person from ed yeah...what im sayin is half the things could be lies....we dont know do we
what i know of him hes a good person ....i've read good things bout him like u know of him as a bad person
i agree with med on alot of things coz i feel it right
dont celebrate mawlid bcoz i've been taught its a act of bidah
1. I dont follow Shaykh Muhammad ibn AbdulWahhab. I am hanafi. We dont follow his doctrine. We believe in tawassul, in miracles of Saints etc. How you got the idea we are wahhabi is beyond me. Oh maybe because we dont support the making sajdah on graves, the building of shrines on graves.
2. I am from Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama'ah. Before your Ahmad Reza came on the scen in india there was no bareilwi deobandi split. Later after Ahmad Reza ddecided to spread a few lies and eat a bit of halwa he declared leading ulama to be kafir. Then the two groups came about. Both claim to be Ahlus Sunnah and I accept both are.
3. We are Ahlus Sunnah. About liking wahhabis I didnt say I liked anyone. I said that Shaykh Muhammad ibn AbdulWahhab did some good things but also that the modern salafiyyah are not his true followers.
4. It is an old trick of ppl affiliated with the bareilwis that any1 who puts even one word in defense of Shaykh is labbeled wahhabi.
I have mentioned that we disagree on matters, but I can be big enough to accept that difference. We do tawassul, we are not mujassima, we are Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaat.
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
SUBHANALLAH!
kya baat hai.
U claim ignorance of barelwis but know all abot the wahabis?
When the bareilwis are in your own backyard in pakistan and te wahhabis had to be shipped over from saudia?
What a comment.
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
But there is no such thing as a brelwi, i didnt know who "brelwi's" were until i came to this forum but only to knw there is no such thing as a brelwi!
coz theey aint the same thing :roll:
wahabis exist around my area, and ive learnt stuff about em
i dont know what a brelwi is so i cant say i am one.....but based on what you lot tell me, i dont think i can be as i dont like halwa, especially halwa puri
Med....double standards, your implying im a brelwi
The Lover is ever drunk with love;
He is free, he is mad,
He dances with ecstasy and delight.
Caught by our own thoughts,
We worry about every little thing,
But once we get drunk on that love,
Whatever will be, will be.
ɐɥɐɥ
Go to Markazi Jamia Masjid Ghamkol Sharif, small heath bham and ask about barelwis.
or go to Manchester Central Mosque and ask about barelwis.
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
will they serve me halwa?
The Lover is ever drunk with love;
He is free, he is mad,
He dances with ecstasy and delight.
Caught by our own thoughts,
We worry about every little thing,
But once we get drunk on that love,
Whatever will be, will be.
ɐɥɐɥ
loooooooooool and u say ur not a barelwi?!
go on a thursday and have a look, if not wait for them to do giyarween and then u can eat hawla till it comes out your ears!
Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar
i only said that coz i aint got the foggiest what halwa has to do with anything.
LooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooL
:roll:
The Lover is ever drunk with love;
He is free, he is mad,
He dances with ecstasy and delight.
Caught by our own thoughts,
We worry about every little thing,
But once we get drunk on that love,
Whatever will be, will be.
ɐɥɐɥ
Hayder if med says your a brelwi, you are a brelwi!!
Yeh i wana knw bout this silly halwa thing!
discussion on wahabis:
http://www.iiie.net/1/content/view/119/44/
its typical isnt it medieval, if you highlight the errors of muhammad bin abdul wahabb and you are called a brelwi. what a cop out! how easy is that
you cant refute any of my posts regarding the fitnah of muhamamd bin abdul wahhab..you're only answer is that i must be a brelwi .
you still are happy to defend your noble shaykh muhammd bin abdul wahhab afetr everything i have stated how he has gone against the classical scholars. yet you were the one banging on about how i was turning against the earlier scholars! your beloved Wahabb rejected majority of classical scholars. he has invented so many devaint claims about shirk and bidah which insult the muslim ummah.
all you have left is to run away and attack ahmad raza. do so, he is not one of my scholars, my beliefs have got nothing to do with him. i have no reason to defend anything about him. My aqeedah is based on quran, sunnah, ijam, qiyas....unlike your aqeedah which is based in deoband!
every aspect of belief which i have put forwarded has always been based on quran , sunnah and classical scholars.
a wahabbi is one who follows doctrine of muhamamd bin abdul wahabb which you do to a certain extent.
i do not believe in shirk- how van any muslim, i dont worship anyone other than allah. i dont do sajdah to anyone other than allah. i have upmost respect fpr the auliyah and mashaik but i dont worship them, neither does any learned muslim- only a jahil will do that.
you may continue to praise your noble shaykh muhamamd bin abdul wahhab, my duty was to highlight how he went astray by rejecting the islam of our classical scholars. inshallah i have done that.
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