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Look im not saying im agreeing with stress but i dont condemn her either, but naz can you seriouslly chill out a little, you say she should have gone to a scholar how come you didnt suggest this earlier? now sister stress all im going to say to you is this, dont say anything which might or is offensive towards your parents, please try not to demonise them whether intentionally or not, if this is a serious issue go contact a professional otherwise i wouldnt advise you to come on here because some people on the forum..... let say eastenders isnt enough for them.

Those who danced were thought to be quite insane, by those who couldn't hear the music...

Naz, you have completely got the wrong end of the stick.

Let me give an example (a true one - but without any specifics).

I have to VERY DEAR friends. One is a born Muslim, and tries to help converts a lot by helping them with 'the basics' etc. The other is one of these converts. They became good friends.

Then they had a falling out - it was about a number of issues - one was whether Christians can be accepted into heaven if they believed in God, did good deeds, and had never found out about Islam (or if their image of Islam was clouded by terrorists or the media so they didn't realise it was the Truth). Another issue was fulfilling our compulsory Ibadah - another was sufism -there were other issues too.

Basically their relationship with each other broke down completely. It is worth bearing in mind that these are not kids, or even young adults. They were grown-up men, so many of my friends felt uncomfortable telling them what to do or giving them advice, without being disrespectful.

So what should we do? One of them had got alienated from the rest of the group because he felt we were 'taking sides' - it got to the stage where he felt he couldn't be friends with us, and even suggested some of us were being 'brainwashed'.

Both of them had some share of the blame in causing the argument, and both of them had character faults that had led to the situation. Me and my friends wanted to help both of them so we had to discuss the situation with each other. We were aware that we shouldn't 'bad-mouth' them or 'slag them off', but it was necessary to discuss their faults if we wanted to truly help them, right?

There is a difference between 'back-biting' and sometimes saying negative things about people because you are trying to find solutions to their problems. If Stress had come on the forum saying "I hate my parents, its so unfair" etc then I would agree with you, but her original post said:

"my family do not wish to get me married out of caste because they say it will bring shame in the family. i am having a hard time to get them to understand that caste doesnt exist in islam bt they do not listen. i have no idea in what to do"

a later post said:

"ive talked to my mum about the cast system and culture and tried explain it, i got beaten up by it, my mum didnt want to believe it."

I can't see anything in that which is like 'slagging them off'. She had to say what her mother had done in order for us to understand her situation so we could try to offer help.

And about 'going to scholars' - WHAT ARE YOU ON ABOUT?! I agree that it is a good thing to try to do but there are many things which might mean it is difficult/impossible/not helpful for Stress to do this:

- Many imams were born, bought up and educated in Pakistan and are 'cultural' themselves.
- Many imams are out-of-touch with youth so don't understand our day-to-day pressures/lives.
- Many imams don't speak English
- Many mosques don't allow women to enter.
- Many young girls are not allowed to go out without their parents permission, and I can't imagine them giving her permission to go and find help in this matter.
- The internet is available for her at home so she can speak to us easily.
- We are young too so we can speak to her on her level.
- There are points, but I think the ones I already mention are enough.

Naz, if you don't want to help her - don't post on this thread please.

Don't just do something! Stand there.

Ya'qub wrote:
I have to VERY DEAR friends. One is a born Muslim, and tries to help converts a lot by helping them with 'the basics' etc. The other is one of these converts. They became good friends.

cmon ya'qub, you out of all people!

Noor wrote:
Ya'qub wrote:
I have to VERY DEAR friends. One is a born Muslim, and tries to help converts a lot by helping them with 'the basics' etc. The other is one of these converts. They became good friends.

cmon ya'qub, you out of all people!

Noooo!

I am truly humbled.

Don't just do something! Stand there.

is an example of a kid disrespecting his parents. I think there is a very clear difference.

Don't just do something! Stand there.

Ya'qub wrote:
Naz, you have completely got the wrong end of the stick.

Let me give an example (a true one - but without any specifics).

I have to VERY DEAR friends. One is a born Muslim, and tries to help converts a lot by helping them with 'the basics' etc. The other is one of these converts. They became good friends.

Then they had a falling out - it was about a number of issues - one was whether Christians can be accepted into heaven if they believed in God, did good deeds, and had never found out about Islam (or if their image of Islam was clouded by terrorists or the media so they didn't realise it was the Truth). Another issue was fulfilling our compulsory Ibadah - another was sufism -there were other issues too.

Basically their relationship with each other broke down completely. It is worth bearing in mind that these are not kids, or even young adults. They were grown-up men, so many of my friends felt uncomfortable telling them what to do or giving them advice, without being disrespectful.

So what should we do? One of them had got alienated from the rest of the group because he felt we were 'taking sides' - it got to the stage where he felt he couldn't be friends with us, and even suggested some of us were being 'brainwashed'.

Both of them had some share of the blame in causing the argument, and both of them had character faults that had led to the situation. Me and my friends wanted to help both of them so we had to discuss the situation with each other. We were aware that we shouldn't 'bad-mouth' them or 'slag them off', but it was necessary to discuss their faults if we wanted to truly help them, right?

There is a difference between 'back-biting' and sometimes saying negative things about people because you are trying to find solutions to their problems. If Stress had come on the forum saying "I hate my parents, its so unfair" etc then I would agree with you, but her original post said:

"my family do not wish to get me married out of caste because they say it will bring shame in the family. i am having a hard time to get them to understand that caste doesnt exist in islam bt they do not listen. i have no idea in what to do"

a later post said:

"ive talked to my mum about the cast system and culture and tried explain it, i got beaten up by it, my mum didnt want to believe it."

I can't see anything in that which is like 'slagging them off'. She had to say what her mother had done in order for us to understand her situation so we could try to offer help.

And about 'going to scholars' - WHAT ARE YOU ON ABOUT?! I agree that it is a good thing to try to do but there are many things which might mean it is difficult/impossible/not helpful for Stress to do this:

- Many imams were born, bought up and educated in Pakistan and are 'cultural' themselves.
- Many imams are out-of-touch with youth so don't understand our day-to-day pressures/lives.
- Many imams don't speak English
- Many mosques don't allow women to enter.
- Many young girls are not allowed to go out without their parents permission, and I can't imagine them giving her permission to go and find help in this matter.
- The internet is available for her at home so she can speak to us easily.
- We are young too so we can speak to her on her level.
- There are points, but I think the ones I already mention are enough.

Naz, if you don't want to help her - don't post on this thread please.

That was very well said bro.

Whenever i need advice i go tend to go to my friends, and since stress has been cutt off from them then she needs a third party to advise. And since going to an Scholar or Imam may be difficult for reasons bro Ya'qub has pointed out, what other choice does she have but to ask us.

Shame on you Naz lol.

Back in BLACK

Very well said Ya'qub, couldnt have said it better myself.

Those who danced were thought to be quite insane, by those who couldn't hear the music...

Listen guys i will tell you my story

When i was 8yrs old we had moved in2 a new area. Dad had no job and we were 2 sisters and 1 bro.
Life was difficult we had a roof over our heads, 1 double bed, and no setee's. We had no toys to play with, no tv.
My parents worked very hard to keep up with everything. Thoes years were the hardest they had no support but each other, and i am so grateful for what they did for us. We are so lucky we dont have to go down that rd. Even if we do anything we can we still cant repay the difficult times they went thru to raise us. Mashallah my parents have come a long way.
Parents wont want anything wrong for their kids they always try to do the best for them.
As the caste system has run in families from day 1 thats what they want. Thats what their parents wanted and so on you cant change someones mentality.
One lesson in life: RESPECT YOUR PARENTS AND YOU WILL GET RESPECT BACK FROM YOUR KIDS!
WHEN YOUR KIDS DONT RESPECT YOU YOU WILL REALISE WHAT YOUR PARENTS WENT THRU.
I worked in an old ppls home for 3 years and yes you do learn to be patient.

life is for living, live it peacefully...

Ya'qub wrote:
Naz, you have completely got the wrong end of the stick.

Let me give an example (a true one - but without any specifics).

I have to VERY DEAR friends. One is a born Muslim, and tries to help converts a lot by helping them with 'the basics' etc. The other is one of these converts. They became good friends.

Then they had a falling out - it was about a number of issues - one was whether Christians can be accepted into heaven if they believed in God, did good deeds, and had never found out about Islam (or if their image of Islam was clouded by terrorists or the media so they didn't realise it was the Truth). Another issue was fulfilling our compulsory Ibadah - another was sufism -there were other issues too.

Basically their relationship with each other broke down completely. It is worth bearing in mind that these are not kids, or even young adults. They were grown-up men, so many of my friends felt uncomfortable telling them what to do or giving them advice, without being disrespectful.

So what should we do? One of them had got alienated from the rest of the group because he felt we were 'taking sides' - it got to the stage where he felt he couldn't be friends with us, and even suggested some of us were being 'brainwashed'.

Both of them had some share of the blame in causing the argument, and both of them had character faults that had led to the situation. Me and my friends wanted to help both of them so we had to discuss the situation with each other. We were aware that we shouldn't 'bad-mouth' them or 'slag them off', but it was necessary to discuss their faults if we wanted to truly help them, right?

There is a difference between 'back-biting' and sometimes saying negative things about people because you are trying to find solutions to their problems. If Stress had come on the forum saying "I hate my parents, its so unfair" etc then I would agree with you, but her original post said:

"my family do not wish to get me married out of caste because they say it will bring shame in the family. i am having a hard time to get them to understand that caste doesnt exist in islam bt they do not listen. i have no idea in what to do"

a later post said:

"ive talked to my mum about the cast system and culture and tried explain it, i got beaten up by it, my mum didnt want to believe it."

I can't see anything in that which is like 'slagging them off'. She had to say what her mother had done in order for us to understand her situation so we could try to offer help.

And about 'going to scholars' - WHAT ARE YOU ON ABOUT?! I agree that it is a good thing to try to do but there are many things which might mean it is difficult/impossible/not helpful for Stress to do this:

- Many imams were born, bought up and educated in Pakistan and are 'cultural' themselves.
- Many imams are out-of-touch with youth so don't understand our day-to-day pressures/lives.
- Many imams don't speak English
- Many mosques don't allow women to enter.
- Many young girls are not allowed to go out without their parents permission, and I can't imagine them giving her permission to go and find help in this matter.
- The internet is available for her at home so she can speak to us easily.
- We are young too so we can speak to her on her level.
- There are points, but I think the ones I already mention are enough.

Naz, if you don't want to help her - don't post on this thread please.

Yaqub, mate, we can do with having more people like you around!
You know what, I don't think it's like Naz to do this to be blatantly honest with you. Maybe exams are getting her really bad or something.

Chin up, mate! Life's too short.

Useless point but, casts aren't always bad. Depends on the film or programme, some actors are good. CASTES are bad!

Chin up, mate! Life's too short.

I could be here till Im 60 explaining to you lot but you just wont get it. I give up. As for creating that thread it was necessary and not childish because the whole point of THIS thread is to discuss the caste system. Its totally gone off topic and I wouldnt be fair on the person that created it if it got locked hence why.

I promise to butt out. Wake me up when your done.

No not the gum drop buttons! – Gingy

No one said the thread was childish. OK we talked about the caste system. I doubt anyone who agrees with it will have the guts to come and say that here. Stress's problem involved the caste system and how it's breaking her family apart.
Look, mate, I'm not trying to wind you up, but this is so unlike you! I'm starting to think that maybe someone's hacked into your account!

Chin up, mate! Life's too short.

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