Great idea, but...... what if they don't want to know? Bit of a tricky situation.
I think Stress should come back on and let us know what SHE wants to do.

i am going to talk to my parents again and will let you no what happened. over the past 3 weeks ive been in a really bad state with my health and my family. whenever the parents have decided something they always involve my older brother and this makes things difficult coz he doesnt like to hear to other persons views once he has a story in his head he sticks to it

OK, good luck with that. Inshallah it'll be fine!

stress wrote:

my mum is, bt she is one of the mothers who think backwards and so does not want shame in the family. i do love my parents but there are some things that what they say is not in the quran and when i do confront her about this she does not wish to listen and says that i acting like i am older than her

ask your mum how is marrying another muslim bringing shame on the family? what the hell! big deal if he's from another caste. on the day of judgement will Allaah subhanu wa ta'alla say rajey you enter through jannah through this door, gujar through that, bengalis through that and white through that? no i don't think so! so why does it matter? this desi mentality really ticks me off, theres is no logic behind it!

sis if you can't find all the ayah and ahadith i will do it for you, print it off and get your parents and brother, sit them down and read it to them.

give them this situation, a really practicing brother came to your house asking for your rishta. he's an imam, an alim, done hifz, teaches fiqh, aqaid, really good top guy, is able to support and provide for his wife etc and he's a gujar. will you reject him on the basis of his caste? i gave that scenario to my uncle and he walked out the room!

i am trying to find it on the internet but can not find it can u please help me

Courage wrote:

I'm not saying you should declare a social war, Seraph! All I'm saying is that you should make it clear where you stand, like you've said and not let yourself be forced into a marriage. I'm not saying that she should be a spinster all her life or she should run away with some guy.
But how do you know, they'll never ever get it. Because they might. Just maybe. There's a chance. Sometimes it's small sometimes it's a fair chance. Giving up and letting yourself be walked over is the reason why all this trouble happens. It's when we shut up and put up with it when the real trouble happens!
She doesn't have to do that. She doesn't have to be forced to marry someone from the same caste purely for that reason.
People normally eventually wake up and smell the coffee, most but not all.
She has three choices. Accept the caste system and marry whoever her parents tell her, run away with the guy or refuse to marry someone because of the caste and pray and hope and make a patient effort so that her family eventually sympathises with her.
First two are a bad idea. The second one is something that MIGHT work, but not for the weak. It's a big challenge, a risk and a difficult task but she can use time to her advantage.
Or she can give up, not try, be unhappy for the rest of her life and ruin the whole point of marriage.
That's her choice and not ours.

Parents absolutely HATE being told they're wrong... especially by their kids. Im gonna go ahead and make a HUGE generalisation now by saying alot of the older generation (aka alot of our parents) are just really really stubborn and culture oriented. They "actually" think that culture is Islam... when it isnt. EVEN when presented with a well argued case where you give various Quranic references or hadiths they will refuse to believe you simply bcoz your a child and they're your parents. Theres just no reasoning with such people. What you have to bear in mind alot of these parents didnt get a regular education let alone an Islamic one so they're just going off the stuff their parents taught them (which is clearly wrong). In which case they will never wake up and smell the Chai (tea). Best case scenario is you'll be alot better a parent considering you've had both a western education and an Islamic education.

Her options are thus:

1. Stick to your principles and decide your parents are just plain wrong so you wont marry anyone BUT your own choice. Not for the faint of heart, this could be a LONG road. And just bcoz you're willing to wait that long whose to say the guy is? And will you really take the side of a guy who you've just met compared to your family (as annoyingly wrong as they are) who you've known and loved since you were born.

2. Make clear your position. But realise that your parents do actually have your best interests at heart. And atleast consider any 'potentials' that come your way... who happen to be the same caste. That way you're sticking to your principles by making your position clear, and also keeping your parents happy atleast for the time being. And you're actually giving some guy out there whose from the same caste a chance to surprise you.

3. Become depressed and become a full fledged member of the revival. With our continuing mission to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new troubled teens and to boldly go where no muslim has gone before... down the pub. lol.

Hhhmmm this could actually work. I'm like that guy who single-handedly built the rocket & flew to the moon. What was his name? Apollo Creed?

PS I do realise this is mostly repeated by what Naz was saying.

^^^^ you have explained it much better then i have plus you have given options. I kinda like the 3rd option

Naz wrote:

^^^^ you have explained it much better then i have plus you have given options. I kinda like the 3rd option

Thanx sis. I think its also the longest post ive made in... well along time.

jus thougth id let you no ive talked to my mum about the cast system and culture and tried explain it, i got beaten up by it, my mum didnt want to believe it, i told my father but he would not say nethin bt was angry the fact that i got beaten up. it looks like the would have been a good husband can not happy coz of the backwards parents who believe culture more than islam

may Allaah make it easy for u sis.

“All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood.” (The Last Sermon)

“If a person with satisfying religious attitude comes to seek your daughter in marriage, accept that. If you do not, there will be great mischief on earth and a great trouble." (Hadith)

"And of His signs is the creation of the heavens and earth and the difference of your language and colours. Lo! Here indeed are signs for men of knowledge."(Quran -Ar-Rum:22)

"Oh mankind! We have created you from a male and a female, and then rendered you into nations and tribes so that you might know one another. Indeed the most honourable among you in the sight of Allah is he who is most pious." (Quran - Chapter 49, verse 13)

stress wrote:

jus thougth id let you no ive talked to my mum about the cast system and culture and tried explain it, i got beaten up by it, my mum didnt want to believe it, i told my father but he would not say nethin bt was angry the fact that i got beaten up. it looks like the would have been a good husband can not happy coz of the backwards parents who believe culture more than islam

Do you have good practising Muslim friends you can turn to?

Stress - I hope Allah (swt) makes it easier for you inshallah.

Seraph you're staying if your parents aren't coming round so just give in. However if her mum is resorting to voilence then that is not islamically acceptable. What the sister is doing is halal, she wants to marry a decent Muslim. Do istikara and follow it, if its showing as a go ahead, have faith in Allah (swt) and marry him.

Lastly, again i emphasise you have not done anything against Islam so Allah (swt) will help you inshallah, keep strong. I hope everything works out for you and you have a very happy life.

Angel wrote:

Do istikara and follow it, if its showing as a go ahead, have faith in Allah (swt) and marry him.

Eeeeh! Not sure if it's that simple!

i have no friends to turn to, my older brother broke my sim, they stopped me from going out, finishing my last year of uni and also i cnt work. im the past 3 weeks ive been beaten up by my dad, mum, brother and sister and they all made threats and blackmailed me. i have so unhappy at hme and there is no1 2 help me. my mum forced my older sister 2 marry my mums nephew and it failed completely she was on his side and still is after he messed this family up. she still wants him to havea stay in this country, but he doesnt wana talk 2 my mum no more n have anything 2 do with her. my mum is not learning her mistakes bt making more. she tells random people about our family life and they add more stuff, my dad cnt control my mum so dat is why he stays out n comes home late. when a good rishta came my family was against it and judged them of the "caste" not da way the family is. how can i be happy in this family when my family are like this

sis its so sad to hear that. may Allaah give you strength and sabr.

if things are really that bad why don't you speak to someone outside the family? i can get you in touch with a shaykh if you want? maasha'Allaah he is such a pious, humble man. sis have u registered?

It's upsetting to hear about stories like this, how the hell can people who do stuff like this call themselves muslims? sis there's load of great sisters here im sure some of them can help you, if you need help you should turn to them.

if ne1 from outside of family would speak 2 my family about this situation i will get in trouble. they wud blame me for recking the family and for people to talk about us. my mum thinks she knows everything about islam and she is always right, i spoke to my auntie last nite and she said she will try n talk 2 my mum but i told her it will not help as she never listens 2 any1 if they are right

Courage wrote:

Angel wrote:

Do istikara and follow it, if its showing as a go ahead, have faith in Allah (swt) and marry him.

Eeeeh! Not sure if it's that simple!

Obviously it wont be easy, but the situation she is in is very sensitive. If the guy is right for her then she should get out the house where she is getting abused.

Hey Sis

You need to get out of this situation, its one thing your parents being adamant they want you 2 marry their choice but it’s another thing to beat you up to demand this, its your right to be happy.

Get help from agencies, its not easy to leave your family I can imagine but you cannot live your life getting beaten up like this.

It seems only your dad in this situation is on your side, talk to him about how you feel, cry your eyes out in front of him, let him know what state of mind you are in.

I hope Allah (swt) betters this situation for you.

my dad isnt always around, he says 1 thing and done another my dad isnt on my side he jus dont no wat 2 do ive tried talking 2 him but he doesnt listen

What about friends, or teachers or anyone like that?

i have no contact with friends, ive finished university (2nd year) and my sister jus rang me saying that u have to not mention nethin and we go out (play happy families) and i told her what had happened between me and mum and she jus said dnt mention marriage. i dnt have close relationship with her but she is trying to have one wid me but the way she is talking is like demanding like u better not talk to ur friends and dnt trust them etc...

But it seems to me that from what you've said, so correct me if I'm wrong, she MIGHT eventually support you?

inshallah i want all my family to support me but she was in da same situation before she got married, she wanted to get married out of the family and our family said no they took her to pakistan and got her married but the thng was the guy who wanted 2 marry her she only knew him for 6months and his family didnt agree and our family already said that she was gona get married in pakistan. to b honest no1 makes the decision except my mum and older bro and every1 follows.

Then that's another reason to stand firm. It might be just you and your sister but that's better than no one!

but she also sed i cnt get married to the rishta that had cum they neva gona give the rishta

sis its your life not theirs. its gona be you marrying the person not your mum or brother. they cant dictate you life to you. if i was in your situation i would leave.

i have once tried leaving but my dad beat me up really badly, now the good rishta dat came has gone pakistan and i am not sure whether if he is gona get married or not

stress wrote:

i have once tried leaving but my dad beat me up really badly, now the good rishta dat came has gone pakistan and i am not sure whether if he is gona get married or not

Sis, how old are you?

You wont achieve anything by running away from home. You run now and you will be running for the rest of your life. If your parents said no the first time by persist and argue with them? Not only is it disrespectful but your also sinning. Your parents are still your parents at the end of the day and the Qur’an clearly states no matter what they are like you are suppose to speak and treat them kindly. You hurt your parents today and one day when you have kids of your own theyr gonna do the same to you.

Its a rough world out there. Its easy saying your gonna run away but when you have no money and no one its very hard.

And another thing do you really think that this bloke is gonna marry you if you leave your family for him? Im telling you now he is not going to. Hes gonna think well if she has left her parents who have brought her up, fed her, sheltered her and loved her unconditionally how long is it before she leaves me?

And those of you that are egging her on and doling out advice you really need to stop and think about what you are saying. Some of you firstly encouraged her to talk to her parents AGAIN about marrying some bloke of a different cast that got her beaten up. Now your telling her to run away from home! What is wrong with you ppl!!!