"Judda" wrote:

The following quote is from the ‘stoning to death for adultery’ thread:

"TheRevivalEditor" wrote:

"Omrow" wrote:

Salam

Come on Boss, answer the question.

Jedda asked you again whether or not you agree with stoning a 16 year old girl to death.

He means that to make a girl stand in the open field and keep stoning her until she bleeds to death.

Do you agree with that type of punishment or dont you !!

Omrow

i agree with quran and sunnah, nothing more. if quran and sunnah allow it then so do i . if quran and sunnah dont then i dont.
simple as that- lets not bring logic or emotion in to it.

Bring no logic or emotion in to it?

Mr Editor have u ever witnessed a girl being stoned to death?

Do u have any idea what it is like to watch something like that?

never mind being stoned to death, watching it is enough to make you schizophrenic!

Is your heart made out of stone or something?

God even said in the Koran that the human being is a weak creature.

What about Muhammad and Aisha?

Don’t u feel a tad uncomfortable?

What about amputating the hands of thieves?

What if the thief was young, poor or mentally ill?

I have spoken against my religion so many times, I is now banned from mosque. This is the third time I have been banned and I very much doubt they will let me back in now

I don’t think the reason for my rebelling is a lack of knowledge, although I am a Muslim the more I study Islam the more Islamophobic I feel (that’s phobia against religion NOT Muslims)…

Oddly, I love God more then I fear him, I reckon that is a massive problem….

Would anyone else dare speak out against there religion?

Or is i da only one?

ok lets go back to the basics......

Muslims believe Quran is the literal word of God- Yes?
Quran today is scientifically proven to be thw word of God. Yes?
Muslims belive Prophet Muhammad as th efinal and the true messenger of God- yes?
Muslims believe that the Prophet ONLY did what he wa instructed by Divine Revelation- yes?
Muslims believe like all Prophets < Muhammda (pbuh) was sinless, ma'soon. Yes?
Muslims believe the World and all creation was create dby God- yes?
Muslims follow teh Quran and sunnah-yes?
Muslims have a purpose in life, to worship Allah-yes?
Muslims believe in life after death- yes?
Muslims believe in punishment in the grave-yes?
Muslims believe in heaven and hell -yes?

So Muslims dont question ANY ruling of Quran and Sunnah
Muslims dont need to use logic for any reasons as they believe they are truely from God Almighty.
Some things we might not understand but that doe snot change the fact that they are from the teachings of Quran and Sunnah, and that they are 100% correct.

By questioning or doubting any teaching or law of Islam , you are questioning the existence and power of Allah Almighty.
I used to be confused on some of the issues Judda is on about but once i understood what i have wrote above everything becomes so easy to understand.

The bottom line is, Islam is the Deen of truth, the Deen of Allah and his messenger, no mistakes.

To get a true understanding of Islam we need to sit with true scholars of Islam, study Islam..not through google or books, but study through a scholar. A scholar who has ijaza to teach, who has complete dthe full Alim course from distinguished scholars and institution.

Everyone at some times questions their beliefs, thats not something new or abnormal. That is a test and an attack from shaytaan.
Judda you're a young lad, you know more than most 14 year olds....all i would say is that the subjects you ar econfused about are a bit heavy for someone at that age. You will get the answers in due course.
First of all sort your basics out. From the points I hav ementioned above..if you're answer is NO, then you to study and research that with a scholar and then EVERY other issue will be alot more easier for you to understand.

If you want I will PM you contacts of scholasr who you can sit with to study Islam and get your questions answered.

Wassallaam

Yeah it sound's gruesome and no doubt looks it but it's Allah's law. When you take the shahadah you accept amongst many other things the Quran, as divine law. You can't therefore accept certain aspects that you like and reject aspects you dislike. You could dislike a certain act but still adhere to it because you know Allah has decreed it, and you have no option but to obey, if you are a true believer. If you think this adultery law should be scrapped then you're effectively suggesting Allah's law is insufficient for you.

If you testify to being a muslim you have to accept the shariah law. And if you are living in an islamic state and fear being stoned to death avoid zina simple really. Acts of injustice occur but that's because there is currently no country in the world which is implementing shariah law in it's entirety. Saudi Arabia claims to do it with double standards. I know they do public executions....brother saw the area that was enough to scare him off he didn't wait to see it.

I was once in Judda position as well. But all I can say is if you truely seek answer for your problem and you are sincere, Allah swt will open your eye for you. This is what I found at least. But as ed said you need to seek advice from the right people (scholars) and not the internet. If you also look into islamic history, you will be amaze how many time these punishment were actually implemented in a islamic state, one led by a Claiph. Today they make a mockery of Shariah Law and don't even try to implement them fully.

how can your scholar be bilal phillips don't make me laugh! You mock the hijab, you reject aspects of shariah. You say you'll continue boozing and fornicating. Bilal phillips is a salafi although some salafis reject him. Anyways point is if he's your scholar what are you learning from him? You seem to be rejecting everything he teaches :roll:

You are confused about your faith that's for sure, but not a lost soul. May Allah guide you.

Bilal Philip is cool and you can only be following him if you actually listen to him and seeking advice off him, plus as Yashmati said, he much more miltant in his stance on islam then many scholars.

Also Taqwa is the only thing you need, if you sincerely want to stop doing what u doing. It hard to gain, but once you have it, everything is made much more simple. Also these short term act of pleasure will defintely result in long term problems, just hope it ain't too long before u realise that.

"Judda" wrote:

BTW booze and girls is summing I isn't giving up.

THEN FORGET ABOUT SUBMITTERS, TALIBAN, HIJAB, STONING, WOMEN ISSUES....

JUST TRYING THIS ISSUE OUT FIRST.....THEN WORRY ABOUT OTHER DETAILED ISSUES OF ISLAMIC BELIEF. NO POINT WORRYING ABOUT OTHER ISSUES IF YOU TAKE MICK OUT OF ISLAM BY BOOZING AND FORNICATING....WHICH I DONT THINK YOU DO, YOU WISH YOU DID, BUT STILL ITS OUT OF ORDER.

"Judda" wrote:

Ed y did u delete my thread about 'sex and marriage' earlier this morning?

cos as always you make perverted comments which are not suitable for an islamic forum.

"Judda" wrote:

I is 14, i have got mi whole life ahead of me....

...or so you think. how can you be so sure when your going to die! and even non-muslims will agree with that

oh really.

try this........open a newspaper, and look at the ages of the people dying and how.

chances are less likely, but then again its just a chance.

its like talking to a brick wall, innit!
you do whatever you like, believe whatever you want. You're a man..almost!
i got better things to do than go round in circles.
you ask we answer, u ask same thing again, we answer, u reject, u insult, u do blasphemy, we correct u again, then u ask the very first question again, we answer, then u accuse everyone of grave worship, we correct u , u ask another question.....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

good luck ppl..i aint got time for kids who take the mick out of islam, insult Allah, his prophet, admire another prophet, insults us, doesnt accept hadith, admits in questioning and disagreeing with islam, admits in contnuing to do zina and drink alcohol, disagrees with women wearing headscarf....

he's young, confused, lost the plot..

ok judda budda, nice knowing you....NOT!

lol, that was a funny arguement, totally simpathise with u MrEd. Never argue with a fool they always drag u down to their level and beat you with experience.

"Judda" wrote:

EXACTLY so there was no need to treat my like a child...

If your gonna act like a child you'll be treated as one.

"Judda" wrote:

Rashad claimed to be a messenger NOT a prophet, he didn't bring another scripture so can't possibly claim to be a prophet....

To say your a 'Messenger of God' is pretty much the same as saying you're a prophet. If theres a difference pls point one out as i dont recall there being a difference. Tomatoes, To'matoes.

"Judda" wrote:

i is now very confused

"Judda" wrote:

coz I is bloody mentle innit?

When Ed says your too young he doesnt mean (or atleast im sure he doesnt mean) that you have no brains, he just means your too young to understand it. And yes im aware of how frustrating that answer can seem, but the answers will come in due time you need not chase them.

We all loose faith every once in a while... you just have to dust yourself off and try again. If by brainwashing you mean the constant re-inforcement that Allah(swt) devine laws are true and relavant today as ever than yes, bcoz thats how all religions work; a belief in a higher being.

Islam is not something that any particular individual can claim to fully understand as that would be too arrogant of them and im sure no1 claims to fully understand it. But you must first begin with the basics before advancing on any of the higher issues. Must understand and know the basics as without them you'll simply struggle to understand any of the other issues.

Im sure these weren't the answers you were looking for but you must hav patience and all will be revealed.

"Judda" wrote:

Oddly, I love God more then I fear him, I reckon that is a massive problem….

this is very interesting Judda please explore this more - you love God so much and want to be near Him that you cant bare the restraints of the human shell any more and wish your soul to soar free to go to Allah

in your despair at being stuck on earth and not near to Him you mock Him and His religion?

please feel free to share your thoughts about your thoughts

So it's entirely likely that when Muhammad called himself the seal of the prophet's he was using "Rasul" and not Nabi?

interesting...

Dave....ignore Jud, he aint got a clue what hes on about

"Darth V-Hayder" wrote:

Dave....ignore Jud, he aint got a clue what hes on about

Actually the difference between Nabi and Rasul has been discussed here before... I remember arguing Rasul was flawed as it applied to Jesus because he did not write the gospels, and that much of the Torah wasn't brought by Moses and yet is attributed to him.

Is there anything about his differentiation religiously that is invalid?

Or is it the conclusion regarding Rashad that you disagree with...

Because obviously there is a lot that points against Rashad for any claim to religious authority considering he had two rape charges in AZ against him - one he pleaded non contestare

anything Rashad or Judda says i dont read into

its not even Islam, let alone Orthodox Islam

to claim there is a messenger or nabi or whatver you wanna call it...After the Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) is kufar.

and to reject the Hadith's is absurd

They have also been called Khalifites but it is suggested that we should call them Tucsonis (or Tucsonites) and that their religion is Tucsonism. This is in keeping with the tradition of naming Heresies from their places of birth (i.e Qadianism started from a place in India called Qadian and Tucsonism started in Tucson in Arizona USA)

The word Khalifite, Khilafat or Khalif must NEVER be associted with anything bad or evil such as Tucsonism.

The OBLIGATION of implementing Khilafat must be stressed and repeatedly mentioned because it frightens certain groups who wish to destroy its very name.

Hence their creation of 'Rashad Khalifa' Tucsoni to oppose the 'Khalifa Rashida' (Rightly Guided Khalif).This Rashad Tucsoni started off by claiming to have discovered a mathematical 'miracle' embedded in the Quran. Other muslims started to sing his praises (inc.Ahmad Deedat who later disassociated himself from Rashad Tucsoni) and he became well known.

He later claimed that certain verses of the Quran did not produce the required/desired mathematical results therefore these verses should be removed from the Quran.

Then he claimed to have visited Heaven and met all the Prophets and that he (Rashad Tucsoni) is the Final Messenger of Allaah. (astaghfirullaah for even mentioning such blasphemies!!)

He didn't stop there!! He went even further than Mirza Qadiani by inventing a new religion!!! Details below.
Their Beliefs are:
Only the 'Submitters' or Tucsonites are the true believers.

ALL the other billions of Muslims since the companions time till today are hypocrites and commit Shirk.

Islam was corrupted immediately after the Prophet's death.

The Hadith are ALL fabrications of Hypocrites & Idol worshippers & are NOT to be followed.

The Sunnah are silly Arab traditions and NOT to be followed.

Islam has a "bizarre dietary system with multitudes of prohibitions"

"Only the meat of pig is prohibited, not its fat. God does not prohibit pigs, but prohibits only the meat of pigs."

The Quran's authenticity can be proven by playing with the number of letters, words, Surahs etc of the Quran by adding or multiplying them together and then see if the resultant is divisible by the special number '19'.

The two verses of Surah 9:128 and 129 spoil this calculation therefore they are removed from the Quran.

They claim that these 2 false verses in the Quran were introduced by Uthman and the other scribes.

Verses can be removed from one Surah and placed into another Surah to produce the 'mathematical structure'.

Jesus (Isa (as)) is dead and NOT coming back (He will disown you when he arrives :x )

Muhammad's name is not to be invoked:

In the Shahada (First Pillar)
In Tashahhud & Prayers (Second Pillar)
In the Azaan
In the Mosques

Muhammad is the last Nabi...............but NOT the last Messenger

(This is one of The Tucsonites favourite quotes. They will mention only the first part to differentiate themselves from the Qadianis in order to confuse Muslims)

Rashad Khalifa Tucsoni(the apostate) is THE MESSENGER OF THE COVENANT.
(I.e. The Last, Best, Greatest who UNIFIES all religions and predicted that the world will end in 2280 CE (1710 AH)- multiples of 19!!)

Muhammad wrote down the Quran with his own hand.

Satan is a 'fallen Angel'. All Jinns are 'fallen Angels'.

ANYBODY, repeat ANYBODY who dies before the age of 40 WILL go straight to heaven!! NO matter how wicked, evil, sinful they appear to be. Martin Luther King is specifically mentioned as having died before 40 andtherefore went straight to Heaven!!

Circumcision is an abomination and must be stopped Women need NOT cover head or wear veil. Gold & Silk are ALLOWED for Men

Capital Punishment NOT allowed. A Murderer MUST only gives money to family of victim. The Thief's hand is NOT to be cut off. Only 'marked'. (With a pen?)...lol
Adulterers are NOT stoned to death.

Note 'Edip Yuksel' is supposed to have translated the Quran into Turkish and Kurdish. Please make people aware of the beliefs of these people.

One may add the names of 'Nadeem Quraishi' - author of web page about Jesus being dead and 'Niaz Aziz' who hangs around Chat rooms trying to confuse people by telling half truths in order to gain converts to their because. It may even be one person using different names.

Their websites are www.moslem.org and www.submission.org (there are others also) The above information is from their appendices to the text version of the downloadable Quran. Needless to say, BE CAREFUL!!! The site looks very nice & Islamic BUT contains pure KUFR.

Ref: http://islamicweb.com/beliefs/cults/submit_beliefs.htm

Christians and Jews are better than these ppl :x

Question: if this Rashad dude claims to be a messenger , he should according to your definition have no new scripture, but reitterate past scriptures namely the Bible, Torah and Quran. So why is it he's adding and removing verses of the Quran so that it adds up to 19? He clearly has a new message. So that means he's a prophet too? Or wait a min is he God? What authority does he have to alter the Quran. Why should we listen to all the rubbish you regurgitate on his behalf.

Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Apostle of God, and the Seal of the Prophets: and God has full knowledge of all things. (The Noble Quran, 33:40)"

Comments from the foot notes of the translation of Sheikh (Minister) Abdullah Yusuf Ali; may Allah Almighty rest his soul and make Heaven his final destiny: "When a document is sealed, it is complete, and there can be no further addition. The Holy Prophet Muhammad closed the long line of Messengers. Allah's teaching is and will always be continuous, but there has been and will be no Prophet after Muhammad. The later ages will want thinkers and reformers, not Prophets. This is not an arbitrary matter. It is a decree full of knowledge and wisdom, 'for Allah has full knowledge of all things.'"

Your idea of seal is clearly different to what Allah has stated. Your seal becomes unstuck to pave the way for the number 19. :roll: