Was Shabina Begum...

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she might take it to the European courts now, heard her on the radio this morning- i pray for her success. Although i can understand the school has a uniform policy i don't see why they can't accomodate for her and other girls Each school can decide upon their own criteria for school uniforms, the government doesn't dictate this to them. If that's the case since students are the ones wearing them why not get them involved in the decision making? Afterall you want them to wear the school colours but you want them to be happy right?.They already allow long skirts, what's wrong with a few inches longer for those who want it?

I remember when my secondary school decided to go for a uniform policy. It never effected me coz i just made it into the upper years, and we were exempt!!. But even so all students were consulted on the sorts of colours we'd like, and styles. Obviously this school didn't do much consulting?

No doubt she will win if she decides to pursues the case. Its her right to wear any garment.

"yashmaki" wrote:
she might take it to the European courts now, heard her on the radio this morning- i pray for her success. Although i can understand the school has a uniform policy i don't see why they can't accomodate for her and other girls Each school can decide upon their own criteria for school uniforms, the government doesn't dictate this to them. If that's the case since students are the ones wearing them why not get them involved in the decision making? Afterall you want them to wear the school colours but you want them to be happy right?.They already allow long skirts, what's wrong with a few inches longer for those who want it?

Yeah exactly, a long skirt with a top is practicaly the same as a jilbaab except it's just one piece of garment.

I was watching the news and the court kept changing their decision as the years progressed, i didnt know that was allowed :?

"yashmaki" wrote:
Obviously this school didn't do much consulting?

I think it did. I do not know of any school that allows students to either wear trousers, long skirts or the shalwar kameez.

The uniform is either skirts or trouser's in most schools. In my sixth form I couldnt even fight for the right to wear trousers or the hijaab instead of skirts.

i know lots of schools in my town that allow trousers, short and long skirts, the salwar kameez, the jilbab and even the niqab. Considering London has more of a mix of different ethnic minorities i'm kinder shocked to hear that from you :?

Plus the area where Sister Shabina comes from is highly populated by asians, so maybe it should have been considered. No one is asking for special favours here. Is it a special favour that allows indopak girls to wear salwar kameezs. i think it's a cultural awareness. Shame this awareness doesn't extend to religious awareness.

What you weren't allowed to wear the headscarf???or you mean the jilbab?

I do agency work in different schools across East London (which is a predominately Asian area) and they're pretty strict when it comes to the uniform policy.

I suppose Shabina's school thought that they were already very accomodating (much more than most schools are)...so they're werent willing to bend anymore.

I went to a catholic school and they didnt allow the headscarf...

Perhaps. Well i wish her the best if she decides to proceed. If the case wins then many muslim girls will be wearing the jilbab to school coz of all the campaigning she and her family did. Sadly her efforts will all too easily be forgotten. If she fails then i guess the Shabinas of the world will have to either go to school without the jilbab and compromise what they see as a fundemental part of their faith. Or opt for an islamic school.

Do devout Christian girls cover their hair all the time, or just for church? i was under the impression it was always?

"yashmaki" wrote:
Do devout Christian girls cover their hair all the time, or just for church? i was under the impression it was always?

Lol-Modern christians don't cover their head...only nuns do.

I think my school never allowed it because it was a overt manifestation of your faith...and that school was a very strict catholic school, where only Christianity was promoted.

ok one more question going off the topic a bit. so why don't christian girls cover their hair but nuns do? i heard of two christian girls in the media just when french headscarf bans were proposed. They weren't nuns but their father was very proud to let them wear the headscarf in the fashion worn by muslim girls. He said it went in line with the commands of the bible for women to cover their heads and remain modest. His daughters were very happy to wear the headscarf. But i suppose they're a rare case in the west?

one of my friends up north could not wear the hijab in her catholic school either.

shabina's school HAD to be flexible with the uniform because almost ALL the students were Muslim. i personally think the shalwar kameez is a ridiculous and unnecessary incorporation into the uniform, but thats what the parents wanted. as yash said, i dont see y they couldnt add the jilbab to the uniform list along with trouser, skirt, and shalwar kameez. (they have enough diversity as it is, what difference would one more garment make?) :?

[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=, X-Men[/url]

went to a Church of England school in East London, the school had no problems with sisters wearing long skirts and headscarf, don't think we had any sisters who wore the full length Jilbab though.. but these days you do see a lot of our younger sisters around east london wearing the long outer garment..

where I work, there this sis i see sometimes wearing a nikab to school, and thats in the city.

although a reference to 911 had been used in her case about islamophobia, at the same time I reckon following 911 there have been an increase in youth wanting to express their religion through modesty..

it aint harming no-one, it all good imo.

[b][i]Round and round the Ka'bah,
Like a good Sahabah,
One step, Two step,
All the way to jannah[/i][/b]

a school i wanted to go to had a short skirt as their uniform

parents asked if trousers could be worn instead

they said no and if we had a problem with that we should consider another school

sounds fair enough to me

if a student has a problem with the uniform then why attend that school in the first place? :roll:

i think she was wrong

made things worse for muslims

she could wear scarf, and dress islamically...but like extremists they have to go one step further....

as mentioned, a loose skirt, a long jumper, a coat etc become the jilbaab... just wearing a long cloak is not jilbaab...

ppl lik s habina begum make islam look strict, rigid...

she was WRONG!!!

 

"TheRevivalEditor" wrote:
made things worse for muslims

how??

"MuslimSisLilSis" wrote:
if a student has a problem with the uniform then why attend that school in the first place? :roll:

if the school is private, then you may have a point. but if its state and you're in the catchment area, you're entitled to go to that school.

[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=, X-Men[/url]

"*DUST*" wrote:

"MuslimSisLilSis" wrote:
if a student has a problem with the uniform then why attend that school in the first place? :roll:

if the school is private, then you may have a point. but if its state and you're in the catchment area, you're entitled to go to that school.

its not to difficult to find another school

in my town alone there's four high schools and four primary schools and God knows how many nursuries all within walking distance

"MuslimSisLilSis" wrote:
"*DUST*" wrote:

"MuslimSisLilSis" wrote:
if a student has a problem with the uniform then why attend that school in the first place? :roll:

if the school is private, then you may have a point. but if its state and you're in the catchment area, you're entitled to go to that school.

its not to difficult to find another school

in my town alone there's four high schools and four primary schools and God knows how many nursuries all within walking distance


and if they're government-funded, the child is entitled to go to whichever he/she wants.
anyway, u live in London! Blum 3

[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=, X-Men[/url]

I agree with Ed.

This reflects badly on the whole of the Muslim community. It appears as if we are wanting ever more priviledges.

But had this been a Buddhist student wanting to wear a full flowing orange gown there wouldn't have been such massive media coverage; regardless of how far he took the case in the courts. The fact that it's a Muslim student claiming religious rights whips up anti-Muslim feelng. And HT's involvement in this just gives more ammo to people like [url= Johnson[/url] (look at the way takes the mick out of the 'modesty' defence).

But to blame Shabina is a bit harsh. It's the advice she is being given by her elders that is the main problem.

"TheRevivalEditor" wrote:
i think she was wrong

made things worse for muslims

she could wear scarf, and dress islamically...but like extremists they have to go one step further....

as mentioned, a loose skirt, a long jumper, a coat etc become the jilbaab... just wearing a long cloak is not jilbaab...

ppl lik s habina begum make islam look strict, rigid...

she was WRONG!!!

Well that's your opinion but she obviously felt strong enough to go to court for it. I dont wear the jilbaab but i can understand how some girls may find other dresses insufficient for the purpose because everyone has diff. level of Iman and understanding and act according to that.

I dont think she has given a bad view of Islam/Muslims.

i voted wrong

she didnt have to waer it, and could have settled for the other options...but maybe she thawt she couldnt

but having said that, considerin every1 can wear anythin they want (or nothing at all), i think she has a good reason to take her case to court

but then again, it was in a skool which had been fairly fair

dunno, if it goes to Europe - most likely she will win, and it'll be a landmark case which could open gates for all pupils to waer Jilbabs

The Lover is ever drunk with love;
He is free, he is mad,
He dances with ecstasy and delight.

Caught by our own thoughts,
We worry about every little thing,
But once we get drunk on that love,
Whatever will be, will be.

ɐɥɐɥ

"Fresh Prince" wrote:
i voted wrong

she didnt have to waer it, and could have settled for the other options...but maybe she thawt she couldnt

but having said that, considerin every1 can wear anythin they want (or nothing at all), i think she has a good reason to take her case to court

but then again, it was in a skool which had been fairly fair

dunno, if it goes to Europe - most likely she will win, and it'll be a landmark case which could open gates for all pupils to waer Jilbabs


i thought she was causing too much of a fuss, theres nothing wrong with wearimng a salwar kameez and i actually do understand how a jilbaab can be a safety hazard.

smile and be happy!!!

Its not an issue of right or wrong.

It should have been solved within the school. In my understanding the school was open to discussion. They even consulted some mosques. (The advice from the mosques may have been erroneous, but that is another case)

Now that it has a verdict of law over it, it can set a presedence. A very bad one at that.

Its an own goal. One that can be used in future to harm muslims.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

"madiha" wrote:
"Fresh Prince" wrote:
i voted wrong

she didnt have to waer it, and could have settled for the other options...but maybe she thawt she couldnt

but having said that, considerin every1 can wear anythin they want (or nothing at all), i think she has a good reason to take her case to court

but then again, it was in a skool which had been fairly fair

dunno, if it goes to Europe - most likely she will win, and it'll be a landmark case which could open gates for all pupils to waer Jilbabs


i thought she was causing too much of a fuss, theres nothing wrong with wearimng a salwar kameez and i actually do understand how a jilbaab can be a safety hazard.

[color=indigo]wearing a jilbaab isnt a health and safety hazard, girls can wear them long skirts its no different from a skirt, i wear the jilbaab n i do all sorts in it, run around play footie using the health and safety issue is just passing the buck,[/color]

[b][color=DeepPink]O you who believe, If you help (in the cause of) Allah, He will help you, and make your foothold firm[/color][color=DeepSkyBlue] {Surah Muhammad7}[/color][/b]

"Beast" wrote:
It [b]appears[/b] as if we are wanting ever more priviledges.

But had this been a Buddhist student wanting to wear a full flowing orange gown there wouldn't have been such massive [b]media coverage[/b]; regardless of how far he took the case in the courts. The fact that it's a Muslim student claiming religious rights whips up [b]anti-Muslim feelng[/b]. And HT's involvement in this just gives more ammo to people like [url= Johnson[/b][/url] (look at the way takes the mick out of the 'modesty' defence).


and whose fault is this? the people who hate us will continue to hate us no matter what, does this mean we 'mellow down' and forsake our rights? a buddhist AND a muslim equally have the right to go to court over their religious concerns, its the media's choice to 'whip up' whatever they want over either case, this should not affect the person's resolve.

"Fresh Prince" wrote:
she didnt have to waer it, and could have settled for the other options...but maybe she thawt she couldnt

freshie dunno y u voted her wrong coz on the whole ur argument seems to suggest u support her case... Fool but about that^ bit - if a girl believes jilbab is fardh and she has the islamic evidence to back her standpoint, is she going to stop wearing it just because some muslims happen to think it isn't fardh?

"Exquisite" wrote:
"madiha" wrote:
i thought she was causing too much of a fuss, theres nothing wrong with wearimng a salwar kameez and i actually do understand how a jilbaab can be a safety hazard.

[color=indigo]wearing a jilbaab isnt a health and safety hazard, girls can wear them long skirts its no different from a skirt, i wear the jilbaab n i do all sorts in it, run around play footie using the health and safety issue is just passing the buck,[/color]


lol u took the words outta my mouth girl. Wink madiha i have done some crazy things in my jilbab, its never posed a 'safety hazard'. its not as if she would have worn it in her P.E. lessons (unless they were mixed which i doubt).

"Admin" wrote:
It should have been solved within the school. In my understanding the school was open to discussion. They even consulted some mosques. (The advice from the mosques may have been erroneous, but that is another case)

everything hinges off the mosques' advice - if its erroneous, thats a big deal. yes the school was open to discussion, but not in shabina's case - she did try and discuss it with them, but when they gave a final 'no', she took the case to court.

"Admin" wrote:
Now that it has a verdict of law over it, it can set a presedence. A very bad one at that.

Its an own goal. One that can be used in future to harm muslims.


plz expand on this point...

[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=, X-Men[/url]

Spot on Dust, nice to see someone talking sense.

Everyone been saying why didn't see just go to another school. But if you look at the situation, she was at a all girl school that had 80% muslims population. The school seem like a perfect environment to send ur practicing muslim sisters too. Plus principle are important and as Dust said she believe it was fardh so to be honest if a muslims didn't fight for something that they believe was an obligation on them, i personally be concerned.

Also it is important to look at some of the statement that muslim head mistress made, don't tell me you there isn't a reason to be concern by them, she definitely trying to apply something. The word extremism is being thrown around too easily of late. Then we have muslims on the other side trying to make Islam seem cute for them. :roll:

Also Shabina has worked within the laws of the land, why are muslims so scared to see people stand up for the right given to them by the laws of the country. Should we become apologetic muslims, you honestly think that it would make our situation any better. As dust stated, some people are never going to be happy with muslims and islam should we constantly be trying to please them, because we will end up diluted the religion so much till we muslims in name only. For evidence just look at cartoon conterversy and then Livingstone and teh Holocaust denier. We live with alot of double standard and i don't see the point of adapting our islam to make it something it not.

On a side note, i see how this case has highlight the case of the jilbaab and I seen much more sister adopt the Jilbaab, which is a positive and i believe alot of that has been due to this case and the strenght that Shabina and her family has shown in fighting the case.

"A true Muslim is thankful to Allah in prosperity, and resigned to His will in adversity."

[url=http//

"*DUST*" wrote:
"Admin" wrote:
Now that it has a verdict of law over it, it can set a presedence. A very bad one at that.

Its an own goal. One that can be used in future to harm muslims.


plz expand on this point...

The law lords ruling was not that 'the school can stop people wearing jilbab if they wish'.

It was more like 'The schools have the right to weed out behaviour that is far from mainstream'. or something like that.

In the future if there is even an unlinked case where some instititution bans something, anything, this can be used as prior art in suport of the banning.

(I am not a lawyer, but that is how I think it works.)

I think she should have been allowed to wear the jilbab (within limits, as there IS a school uniform... so limit colours etc to fit it with uniform...). But due to the way this has been handled, it does more harm than good.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

im sorry but Dust and Yuit.... you are defending her BECAUSE SHE'S MUSLIM- yuit's favourite argument....

Muslims need to wake up, in the UK we can practise Islam freely, no restrictions... its ppl like shabiona begum who enforce governments to introduce laws to restrict us....
ppl like shabina begum are a good advert for bnp, she makes a MAJORITY or good non muslims oppose, hate, be against Muslims and Islam...because Shabina Begum apparently is speaking for Islam...
poor old shabina has been mislead and misguide dby her HT bro and co...

a few points for shabina begum supporters:

1. if u believe jilbaab, by this i mean, if u believe wearing a long cloak, is fardh then you should go to an Islamic school or to an all girls school where you do not need a jilbaab....she went to an all girls school, yeah? then why the jilbaab, did she want to do pardah from other girls??

2. jilbaab is not just outer a long cloak...jilbaab means to cover, to hide... jilbaab is any clothe/ clothes which are worn above your clothes and cover the outline of your body, they are loose etc... jilbaab can be a long loose jumper on top of a nice long loose skirt, shirt, salwaar kameez etc...

3, her school allowed headscarf, long skirts, long jumpers , long loose salwaar kameez, long coat... so im sorry that is more than sufficient as it fulfills islamic dress code... shabina begum is just fussing over nothing... just gaving islamophobics a chance to have a dig at us, and add more restrictions on us.

4. a uniform is a uniform... the school she went to went out of their way to change/reform school uniform just for Muslims.... but no, shabina was not happy but the rest of the muslims were, even ulema were consulted regarding the school uniforms and they approved...
if shabina was allowed to wear jilbaab, which hides all uniform, then next rastafarians, nudists, nuns, girls who want to wear just their underwear, have a punk hair do, tatoo and pierce their whole face etc.... WHERES THE LIMIT? allow muslims one thing but stop others...NO! Muslims today think with their emotions, not with wisdom or logic...and just defend Muslims..BECAUSE THEY ARE MUSLIMS!!!

5. thousands of practising Muslims in UK go to school, college, uni, work with clothes that fulfill shariah, not necessarily a long cloak which they call jilbaab, ...and they have no probs, but shabbina begum and her supporters are creating headaches....

6. we are less than 5% in this country, dont expect special laws and special treatment...otherwise sooner or later we will lose our right to practise Islam freely in this country... the influence of al muhajiloonies and Ht is damaging us big time.

7. shabina begum has had enough publicity , now she should zip it and get on with her life...enough damage done.

wasalaam

 

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