What do you think dam is?

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"E20" wrote:
Angel I reject peers full stop

As for that peer, why would he lie? The mosque he gives his money to is dead nice.

He does not have to lie.

However you cannot charge for the qur'an.

You may charge for the effort you have put in, but otherwise any mony must be a donation.

Do you understand the concept of peers? not the current version that has been watered dowen, but the original and how they are suppose to work?

A shaykh is one a person would go to to learn about islam. The shaykh would teach the person (his mureed), and once he had taught he would tell the student to go to this shaykh, and be taken under his wing... and be taught by him.

Currently its mostly in name though... and open to abuse. But doe properly, it can be beautiful.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

"Admin" wrote:
Do you understand the concept of peers? not the current version that has been watered dowen, but the original and how they are suppose to work?

actually yea your right there ... i know my dad had a peer when he was really young who was there to guide him, not all peers are those who fortune tell etc..

but however dont have trust in them no-more

I agree that fortune tellers should stick to crystal balls.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

"Admin" wrote:

You may charge for the effort you have put in, but otherwise any mony must be a donation.

If you don’t cough up, he won’t give you a taveez. However I am pretty damn sure the money does go to the Mosque, however it is a forced contribution, I know its only a fiver but some people get a tavees for their whole family (including extended family) [size=1] and we Pakistanis traditionally have larger families and a fiver per person does not come cheap when you add it all up, however only a cheapskate would refuse to cough up.[/size]

"Admin" wrote:

Do you understand the concept of peers? not the current version that has been watered dowen, but the original and how they are suppose to work?

yes. Con idiots like me and my family…

a forced donation is not a donation...

And I am sure you are joking about your second bit... (I would assume you read the rest of my post)

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

Yes I was joking, I have no idea about these “original peers”. Enlighten me admin.

"E20" wrote:
There was someone on the Islam channel (Q&A programme) that said taweez was shirk. He even quoted from an ahadith saying that the prophet said it was shirk… and I think he cursed anyone who wore it.

The khalifa does other bizarre stuff too.

those hadiths are referring to the time of jahiliyyah when people considered the taweez to be the ultimate curer...that is when its considered shirk...

actually this also occours in present era

There are true peers and we accept them. Its all to do with how things are worded nowadays.

Say to som1 that such and such is a peer and immediately negative ideas come into the head. Say that such and such is a shaykh and people think oh how good.

Shaykh - arabic
Peer - persian. SAME meaning.

The true peers are lights for mankind and do nothing more than join men to ALLAH, they instil in people the love of the Sunnah, encourage the obedience to shariah.

E20: I know who u referring to but until you can provide proof dont slander that masjid or the Sufi either. Better to be silent unless you can prove your allegations.

Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar

Unfortunately i have a very bad idea about pir sabs, especially the bengali ones. They are the biggest con artists i've ever come across.

I know what the word means, and granted there may be decent ones out there who aren't fabricating lies, aren't giving ppl false hopes, or even accepting money for their services. But there are those who do exactly the opposite, my family was involved with one.

I've mentioned this before so i'll keep the story short. He stayed in our house for a few months. My parents trusted him. He did nothing but give false hopes of a miraculous recovery to my mother. Doctors didn't know what was wrong with her but this pir was claiming nothing but black magic. Course there was no black magic. Sorcery is not the cause of every ailment. That's the problem with indopak elders soon as they get the slightest cold oh no it's jadoo!. Later it turns out to just be the flu, or something more serious like a terminal illness.

I saw nothing but hindu rituals, and i recognised them coz i had seen such things in temples and read them in books.

For all his so called piety he was a big con artist. Parents paid him handsomely too, and he lived freely in our house for months. Wouldn't eat no foods from outside that includes bread. So i had to make fresh bread for him. Fresh everything. It was hell.

Docs finally diagnosed her after 6 months. This man at one stage performed what you call dam, but he too had a stick, which he kept moving, and like someone mentioned he was shouting in her ear.. And i thght what is that for..any minute now the stick will halt to his left and he will cry water that way loool. My brothers wanted to throw him out, so did i but our parents respected him coz he had been recommended by our uncle. Same uncle who this pir saab said he could cure of diabetes and heart problems. Uncle still has those problems, plus he's bankrupt.

I'd never go to these pir sabs. I can pray for myself. I can make supplications for myself. If i have an ailment i ask of God i see a doctor and insha'Allah the problem will be solved if there is a cure. I don't need these fakers who play with ppls emotions and potentially lives.

If God forbid black magic strikes me i'll seek someone pious out who doesn't ask for money, and doesn't pretend they can miraculously cure me.

There is misconception, the peer is not some magic healer. The true peer is one who has received ijaazah in silsilah from his peer and is permitted to accept people into his bay'at.

IMO: Shaykh Riyadh ul Haq, Shaykh Saleem Dhorat, Hadrat Mawlana Yusuf Motala Sahib, Hadrat Shaykh ul Hadeeth Mawlana Muhammad Zakariyya Kandhalwi were/are true peers.

They accept the bay'ah and work to help reform the conditions of their mureeds. The other ta'weez, and getting rid of jinn, and doin dam are secondary and infact extremely minor. The ESSENCE of the true peer/shaykh is the islaah/ moral and spiritual reformation of the public.

Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar

"Med" wrote:

IMO: Shaykh Riyadh ul Haq, Shaykh Saleem Dhorat, Hadrat Mawlana Yusuf Motala Sahib, Hadrat Shaykh ul Hadeeth Mawlana Muhammad Zakariyya Kandhalwi were/are true peers.

the above are only true PEERS according to you and ppl of your 'maslik'. not everyone...with all due respect.
other ppl can come up with a list of true peers and you will slate them and call them ppl of bidah...

a Peer is a spiritual teacher, a spiritual master....
one who is an aalim of the highest calibre and then one who has learnt and practised tassawuf from a shaykh of the highest calibre...

a genuine Peer is one who doesnt call himself a peer, doesnt charge for his services....

there arent many true or great PEERS today..

with all due respect, the ppl you have mentioned are scholars but I dont think most of them qualify as peers, spiritual masters...

wasalaam

 

"Med" wrote:

[size=18][b]IMO:[/b][/size] Shaykh Riyadh ul Haq, Shaykh Saleem Dhorat, Hadrat Mawlana Yusuf Motala Sahib, Hadrat Shaykh ul Hadeeth Mawlana Muhammad Zakariyya Kandhalwi were/are true peers.

hence IMO.

Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar

lol

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

"Med" wrote:
"Med" wrote:

[size=18][b]IMO:[/b][/size] Shaykh Riyadh ul Haq, Shaykh Saleem Dhorat, Hadrat Mawlana Yusuf Motala Sahib, Hadrat Shaykh ul Hadeeth Mawlana Muhammad Zakariyya Kandhalwi were/are true peers.

hence IMO.

read my first two lines- which is a responce to IMO Lol

 

"E20" wrote:
There is this popular peer in Birmingham that charges a fiver for a taveez. People all the way from Scotland travel to see him. He claims ALL the money goes to a mosque, you can tell the money is well spent because the Mosque looks fab.

talking of mosque looking fab this hadith comes to mind..

Hadhrat ali radhiallah tallah anhu states that prophet Mohammed [i]sallalahu alaihi wasallam [/i]observed: "soon a time will come when islam shall exist in name only and quran shall be regarded as a formal book. Their mosques colourful and (floral decoration, tilework, electric fans etc.) shall be in a flourishing state but will be berefit of the light of faith.Their scholars and guides will be worse of them all who inhabit under the sun.These scholars will produce dissensions, and they shall be seized by their mischiefs." ([i]baihaqi[/i])

Are there brackets missing in that hadith?

where did the words electric fans come into the hadith?

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

Now (with the brackets ;)) that hadith does pretty well describe our current situation.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

'our' as in the muslim Ummah as a whole.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

dont laff at me med...

told you am in my own world...

admin..u made me a fool

but i quote it outta some kitaab....

hold on gotta check it up agen.

electric fans is out of place even for commentary...

fans are not a decoration, but a device to cool people.

But that is going too deep.

The hadith (IMO) predicts grand and beautiful, but empty mosques, 'scholars' and imams who are worse than the people, and infighting.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

"naj" wrote:
dont laff at me med...

told you am in my own world...

admin..u made me a fool

but i quote it outta some kitaab....

hold on gotta check it up agen.

Did not mean that. I wanted to be sure...

I am not denying the hadith. All I am saying was that some brackets were missing... so the commentary was becoming mixed with the hadith.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

Naj yr not a fool.

Ya ALLAH Madad.
Haq Chaar Yaar

i think whats in brackets is referring to the present state of some mosques...

just an example...not part of the hadith.

"naj" wrote:
i think whats in brackets is referring to the present state of some mosques...

just an example...not part of the hadith.

... just as said before it is commentary... thus in brackets.... thus referrign to present state...

earth to naj?

anybody home?

I think you need some rest!

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

naj, that hadith you stated was really good
scares me to think our mosque is like that, sign of judgement day i think

yes it is a sign of judgement day.

"TheRevivalEditor" wrote:

a genuine Peer is one who doesnt call himself a peer

lol den how do u know if he is a peer?

wot do dey call dem selves den

What you put in the hearts of others; is what goes back into your own heart…

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