everyone was born... were they celebrated is the question.

I always give a general warning ('everyone calm down'), as I do not want to single anyone out.

I don't care who started what, as long as everyone does start to be more civil.

We will leave OBL to another day. Suffice it to say IMO he is a cancer. Others have different opinions of him, which have differed over time. (Even America liked him at one point...)

this time I said everyone stop accusing others. calm thing was example...

IMO: In My Opinion.

"muslim gyal" wrote:

i in the prophets time i dont think there was such a thing as celebrating b'days .

nor was there such a thing as posting msgs on the Revival

but that dont stop u from loggin on does it?

dont over complicate simple things

"MuslimSisLilSis" wrote:

"muslim gyal" wrote:

i in the prophets time i dont think there was such a thing as celebrating b'days .

nor was there such a thing as posting msgs on the Revival

but that dont stop u from loggin on does it?

dont over complicate simple things

salaam
[b]
What is Bid'ah? By Nuh Ha Mim Keller [/b]
The following is the text of a talk given by Shaikh Nuh Ha Mim Keller at Nottingham and Trent University on Wednesday 25th January 1995.
http://www.therevival.co.uk/articles/bidah.htm

Please read the above article and the issue of bidah will be crystal clear.

wasalaam

salaam

An excerpt from the above article by Shaykh Nuh Keller:
[b]It has been stated (by Izz ibn Abd al-Salam) that innovations (bida) fall under the five headings of the Sacred Law:[/b]

(n: i.e. the obligatory, unlawful, recommended, offensive, and permissible):

[b](1) The first category comprises innovations that are obligatory[/b] , such as recording the Koran and the laws of Islam in writing when it was feared that something might be lost from them; the study of the disciplines of Arabic that are necessary to understand the Koran and sunna such as grammar, word declension, and lexicography; hadith classification to distinguish between genuine and spurious prophetic traditions; and the philosophical refutations of arguments advanced by the Mu'tazilites and the like.

[b](2) The second category is that of unlawful innovations[/b] such as non- Islamic taxes and levies, giving positions of authority in Sacred Law to those unfit for them, and devoting ones time to learning the beliefs of heretical sects that contravene the tenets of faith of Ahl al-Sunna.

[b](3) The third category consists of recommended innovations[/b] such as building hostels and schools of Sacred Law, recording the research of Islamic schools of legal thought, writing books on beneficial subjects, extensive research into fundamentals and particular applications of Sacred Law, in-depth studies of Arabic linguistics, the reciting of wirds (def: Reliance of the Traveller w20) by those with a Sufi path, and commemorating the birth (mawlid), of the Prophet Muhammad (Allah bless him and give him peace) and wearing ones best and rejoicing at it.
[b]
(4) The fourth category includes innovations that are offensive,[/b] such as embellishing mosques, decorating the Koran and having a backup man (muballigh) loudly repeat the spoken Allahu Akbar of the imam when the latter's voice is already clearly audible to those who are praying behind him.

[b](5) the fifth category is that of innovations that are permissible,[/b] such as sifting flour, using spoons and having more enjoyable food, drink and housing. (al Jawahir al-luluiyya fi sharh al-Arbain al-nawawiyya, 220-21).
I will conclude my remarks tonight with a translation of Sheikh Abdullah al-Ghimari, who said: In his al-Qawaid al-kubra, "Izz ibn Abd al-Salam classifies innovations (bida), according to their benefit, harm, or indifference, into the five categories of rulings: the obligatory, recommended, unlawful, offensive, and permissible; giving examples of each and mentioning the principles of Sacred Law that verify his classification. His words on the subject display his keen insight and comprehensive knowledge of both the principles of jurisprudence and the human advantages and disadvantages in view of which the Lawgiver has established the rulings of Sacred Law.

Because his classification of innovation (bida) was established on a firm basis in Islamic jurisprudence and legal principles, it was confirmed by Imam Nawawi, Ibn Hajar Asqalani, and the vast majority of Islamic scholars, who received his words with acceptance and viewed it obligatory to apply them to the new events and contingencies that occur with the changing times and the peoples who live in them. One may not support the denial of his classification by clinging to the hadith "Every innovation is misguidance", because the only form of innovation that is without exception misguidance is that concerning tenets of faith, like the innovations of the Mutazilites, Qadarites, Murjiites, and so on, that contradicted the beliefs of the early Muslims. This is the innovation of misguidance because it is harmful and devoid of benefit. As for innovation in works, meaning the occurrence of an act connected with worship or something else that did not exist in the first century of Islam, it must necessarily be judged according to the five categories mentioned by Izz ibn Abd al-Salam.

To claim that such innovation is misguidance without further qualification is simply not applicable to it, for new things are among the exigencies brought into being by the passage of time and generations, and nothing that is new lacks a ruling of Allah Most High that is applicable to it, whether explicitly mentioned in primary texts, or inferable from them in some way. The only reason that Islamic law can be valid for every time and place and be the consummate and most perfect of all divine laws is because it comprises general methodological principles and universal criteria, together with the ability its scholars have been endowed with to understand its primary texts, the knowledge of types of analogy and parallelism, and the other excellences that characterize it. Were we to rule that every new act that has come into being after the first century of Islam is an innovation of misguidance without considering whether it entails benefit or harm, it would invalidate a large share of the fundamental bases of Sacred Law as well as those rulings established by analogical reasoning, and would narrow and limit the Sacred Laws vast and comprehensive scope. (Adilla Ahl al-Sunna wa al-Jamaa, 145-47).

wasalaam

"MuslimSisLilSis" wrote:

"muslim gyal" wrote:

i in the prophets time i dont think there was such a thing as celebrating b'days .

nor was there such a thing as posting msgs on the Revival

Nor was there text-speak.

"irfghan" wrote:

"MuslimSisLilSis" wrote:

"muslim gyal" wrote:

i in the prophets time i dont think there was such a thing as celebrating b'days .

nor was there such a thing as posting msgs on the Revival

Nor was there text-speak.

nor was there blogs

nor did people call themselves Fred

nor did marraiges take place via agencies

deleted

I dont doubt it

its a black and white issue to me-

the article above should clear the doubts of the doubters

so far on this thread there has been no evidence that proves WHY and HOW b'days are forbidden

deleted

Asalaamu alaikum evry1

not been online 4 a while...interesting topics been started!

well il give my share of opinions...whether any1 agrees or not is up 2 u

if u LOVE someone then u dont think twice about celebrating that persons existance (birthday) nothing wrong with it as long as nothing haraam is done in the process.

as Muslims it is vital that we LOVE our Beloved Nabi Muhammad (peace be upon Him and His family) more than anything/anyone....so the celebration of the Mawlid is another expression of our great love for our Prophet (peace be upon Him and His family).....our Prophet was sent to us a blessing and mercy 2 mankind and Allah Almighty has said in the holy Quran (im not sure of the exact wording so 4give me) that we should rejoice in His mercy and the mercy of Allah (swt) is our Beloved Prophet (peace be upon Him and His family) so 2 me it is crystal clear that we should celebrate the birth of our prophet beacuse it strengthens our love and connection with our Beloved Nabi.....plus our prophet Himself used to celebrate His own birth by fasting on every monday because He was born on a monday so that should be clear enough for us!!!!

Jazak'Allah for reading

"yashmaki" wrote:

Assalamu Alaikum,

The idea that birthdays aren't exactly haram or are harmless and hence permissible doesn't hold ground within an islamic context. You need authentic proof from Quran and sunnah before you act on anything.

Everything is allowed unless it is forbidden is the Islamic law.

Now some scholars (as you say) think it is not allowed based on their research.

In that case, they are entitled to their opinion, but you cannot say something is not allowed just because there is no evidence to it being allowed.

I love b'days, nice way of being appreciated for once, just waitin for nxt yr to come again so i can get loads of presents and money!

Celebratin a b'day is way of rejoicing and is not wrong as long as you keep it within the laws of islam.

deleted

"yashmaki" wrote:

And the point made that if you love someone you celebrate their b'day how does that stand? Did not the sahabah (ra) love our prophet (saw)to such an extent they would have given their lives to be of service to Allah (swt) and His messenger? So why is it the sahabah (ra) never celebrated it? Also our prophet himself surely would have celebrated the birth of his own children if it was permitted? We claim to love prophet just coz we do milad, yet the sahabah (ra) never did milad annually.

.

The companions possessed extreme love for the Holy Prohet they were more then ready to give up their lives for him.

They lived with him, ate with him, were taught by him, sat in his company etc

They did not need to gather together, empty out a venue and discuss his Seerah.

They did not need to remind themselves of how he behaved, how he looked and how he treated others etc

They did not need to remember the sacrifices he undertook in his life to bring us Islam….they were part of it already.

The Sahaba’s never celebrated Milad cos unlike us, they never needed to.

deleted

What is the earliest example of the Milad being celebrated?

"irfghan" wrote:

What is the earliest example of the Milad being celebrated?

The Prophet celebrating his birthday.

"Admin" wrote:

"irfghan" wrote:

What is the earliest example of the Milad being celebrated?

The Prophet celebrating his birthday.

Go on, tell us more.

If this is the case then it completely defuncts the accusations of biddah.

I personally think if ppl wana celebrate it in private thats good but i dont think there is anythin wrong with praising the Holy Prophet through naats, we personally here in glasgow have a milad programme monthly plus i read durood and salam on the Holy Prophet everyday...this is all celebratin..if ppl want to celebrate in a different manner then why not and after all the Holy Prophet is a mercy to the whole of mankind and if his birth isnt the cause for joy then god knows what is...But i have to stress Milad-un-Nabi should be celebrated everyday, by sendin durood and salam on the Holy Prophet reciting naats and following the sunnah.

"irfghan" wrote:

"Admin" wrote:

"irfghan" wrote:

What is the earliest example of the Milad being celebrated?

The Prophet celebrating his birthday.

Go on, tell us more.

If this is the case then it completely defuncts the accusations of biddah.

Some ppl call this shirk!! how can celebratin a b'day be shirk? ppl have said that...

I have heard that the holy Prophet used to fast on a monday due to his birth, i duno if thats the example admin was gona give..Since the holy Prophet fasted on this day it shows that it had a significance, so all those who fast on this day are celebratin the b'day of the Holy Prophet

"irfghan" wrote:

"Admin" wrote:

"irfghan" wrote:

What is the earliest example of the Milad being celebrated?

The Prophet celebrating his birthday.

Go on, tell us more.

If this is the case then it completely defuncts the accusations of biddah.

well you can still say 'others did not celebrate it...So you can only celebrate your own...'

Quote:

He (saas) was asked again. He said, I observe this day in fasting because it was a day in which I was born, and on it the revelation of (Al-Qur'an) was inaugurated." (Muslim)

I'll have to find the exact reference though... (chapter, Hadith no etc..)

Just as a side note, the site I quoted that hadith from followed up by saying that there is evidence of celebrating on mondays, but no proof of an annual celebration, and annual celebration is biddah...

So all proofs can be taken to have different meanings.

"Admin" wrote:

"irfghan" wrote:

"Admin" wrote:

"irfghan" wrote:

What is the earliest example of the Milad being celebrated?

The Prophet celebrating his birthday.

Go on, tell us more.

If this is the case then it completely defuncts the accusations of biddah.

well you can still say 'others did not celebrate it...So you can only celebrate your own...'

Then it comes under 'following Sunnah', doesn't it?

"irfghan" wrote:

Then it comes under 'following Sunnah', doesn't it?

Again, follow sunnah in celebrating your own?

I don't actually know all the arguments against it, so I am just playing devils advocate here...

Salam

"MuslimSisLilSis" wrote:

"Omrow" wrote:

They have no love for the Prophet.

So does the omro have love for the Prophet?

if u do why dont u PROVE it

One would have thought it obvious that there was an antithesis between one making the statement under question and the subject.

We have some problem with inversion, don't we ?

Omrow

were supposed to love the prophet more than anyone inlcuding ourselves, after all he is the greatest of Allah Swt's creations. and if people, like myself and others here, wish to express thier joy and happiness openly via a milaad....whats wrong in it? how is it haraam? how is it bidah? if you dont agree with celebrating, fair does...thats more of a personal choice than anything.

anyways, you all need to watch Shaykh-Ul-Islam's 4 dvd box set on Milaad-Ul-Nabi..............any doubts you have are answered in full depth and backed with enough evidence, you wouldnt be able to wait for the next Milaad-Ul-Nabi

What is the earliest example of Milad being celebrated apart from the Prophet celebrating it?