[size=14] [b]Man Love![/b][/size]Here in the West when a man expresses his love for another man it is usually looked upon disapprovingly and suggestions of homosexuality are insinuated. However, it is fair to say that in most "eastern" traditions men can have very intimate relationships and homosexualuality will not even occur to them. The archetype for this type of relationship is that of Rumi and Shams al-Tabriz although the common factor for their love was the Love of the Divine which is what ultimately bound them to one another. This relationship, quite clearly non-sexual, was intense and the poetry of love that emanated from Rumi upon separation from his beloved Shams is testimony to that. To the Western reader who reads of this relationship for the first time, there is an uneasiness as we cannot see past our modern interpretation of homosexuality for this type of love and affection between two men. Indeed some non-Muslim commentators on Rumi have made this mistake.
In non-western cultures, men walk hand-in-hand or even with their arms around one another in the street, they refer to each other as "habibi" which is the Arabic for "my beloved", in Urdu it is not uncommon to hear the phrase "jiggari yaar/dost" which doesn't have a direct translation in English, but literally means "intimate friend of my liver", the liver being associated with closeness and intimacy such as when a mother cradles her child stomach to stomach, the liver of the mother and the child are in very close proximity. Expressions of love between men are very common without an inference of sexualisation of the relationship. The language of love in the modern era has, like many other things, been profaned. Unfortunately love and lust are now synonymous.
It is common for Muslims to fall in love with the awliya, the ulama and other Muslims, I can say this for myself for a number of our shayukh, they are people that you feel a deep intimate love for, there is a yearning to see them again and an enthralment when in their presence. This is what we have inherited from the Sahabah who had such intense and deep love for the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him and grant him peace) that even in prayer they would gaze upon his countenance and the prayer would not be invalidated. At its fountainhead the reason for our love for the ulama and awliya is the Light of the Prophet (Allah bless him and grant him peace) which is reflected and transmitted by them, how can you not fall in love with that?
[url=http://www.masudblog.com/2007/03/man-love.html]source[/url]
That has always unnerved me in arab countries... that level of intimacy isn't even appropriate for fathers and sons.
Don,
ever visited Tunisia !! :shock: shocking or what !!! Even the waiters were trying to hit on men residing at the hotel at every opportunity !!
I think its only shocking because we've predominantly grown up in a western society.. Ive visited a few 'eastern' countries, and have witnessed men holding hands, or putting their arms around each other while walking down the street, kissing cheeks/hands when meeting, etc People wouldnt bat an eyelid if females were doing the same, so why for men? Is fear of the whole Lut (alayhis salam) thing? Or perhaps its to do with the British stiff upper lip?
May Allah shine sweet faith upon you this day and times beyond. May your heart be enriched with peace, and may your home be blessed always. Ameen.
perhaps that too !!
i find it strange and it does scare me a little i admit, but like u said prob coz of the way i've been raised it appears unnatural to me.
Why do they hold hands though? Come on girls don't walk around holding hands for no reason. u may see girls walking arm in arm usually on a cold day home from school. Or a woman with an elderly woman. But men just holding hands leisurely out of friendship nowt else...i can't accept that yes im prejudiced yikes. Sounds weird.
Kissing each other u mean arab style that is different u see men kissing and huggin after friday jamaat, weddings and other gatherings. Italian men do the same.
the holding hands freaks me out, i wish i could think differently but im narrow minded i suppose.
Another thing eastern countries are often in denial about the problems with homosexuality too. so although this article suggests it's all about friendship it doesn't address the fact that homosexuality is rife in many of these countries. i guess they're ashamed especially if they're meant to be muslim majorities. now i'm in for it huh was too frank....don't hate me it's just an observation on things my male cousins have told me on witnessing this sort of thing.
I developed a close friendship with an Algerian Muslim in London, that ended pretty abruptly when he wanted us to sneak into the park late one night. There were a lot of other men waiting around in the bushes...
[size=10]The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.[/size]
[size=9]Bertrand Russell (1872 - 1970)[/size]
sounds kinda gay... alone at dark with some guy.... strangers in bushes... all you need now is someone singing "It's Raining Men! Hallelujah!" lol
Back in BLACK
Starsky and Hutch what a great relationship and real love thats the way it should be for everyone with their best friend. i think as well rounded loving adults we all know how to show appropriate affection to same sex friends
if we have to think about the affection we show then maybe there is another motive.
Yashmaki about men holding hands well thats up to them but i agree with you it looks seriously weak - i always thought it was becuase they were scared of getting mugged or something.
It's true that society plays a strong role in shaping our opinions.
I think nothing of kissing, hugging or holding hands with a girl...however, if I ever saw a guy doing that each time he met his guy mate, it would worry me.
And I know that this is double standards on my behalf.
Its also intresting to note that guys themselves find men who are homosexuals much more 'disgusting' than girls who do this kind of stuff...
i thought the topic was about hetrosexual male relationships and the hetrosexual and totally acceptable and even encouraged love between men-encouraged in Islam
It is.
But Western society has a problem accepting it.
Possibly because it reminds them of homosexuality (I think).
yes i know. its very hard to change prejudices - we just have to thank Allah we are lucky enough to see good instead of bad especially where there is only good
men holding hands = ew. :? even girls don't randomly hold hands when walking in the street! other stuff sounds ok, brothers should hug eachother when meeting, it increases love for the sake of Allah.
[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/Dust.html]Dust, X-Men[/url]
In Britain male friends holding each others hands is not acceptable.
In muslim nations, this is done quite often. When I visit them, I hold hands of my beloved friends. It is sign of love in a friendship. It has nothing to do with gayism, which is something that is made haram by Allah.
Christians are always misunderstanding when two men hold hands. They seems to obsessed with anything they can interpret as sexual. If a man put his own daughter on his laps, people in Britain tend to see that as something suspicious. Here even fathers are terrified to give a cuddle to their children in public. Teachers do not touch their pupics. In muslims countries teachers kiss their pupils. Men kiss each other on the neck. No one accuses anyone of incest or being gay. Incest is a disease of the west. People here seems to be sexually repressed. Therefore they take that frustaration out on their own close relatives. Muslims have simple rule given to them by Allah. They can take four wives but no girlfriends. They can marry girls of any age from 9 to 90. That is why muslims do not do haram sexual acts. Shia muslims are even allowed to do mutah marriage which can last from few hours to few weeks. We believe that Prophet allowed this type of temporary marriage to his Sahabas which is purely for sexual pleasure. Later on Caliph Umar forbade it but we dont listen to his rulings. We still practise it beacuse it was made Halal by Prophet (pbuh).
Ayatollah rightly named America as "Great Satan".
www.presstv.ir
[color=indigo][b]Ewwwww thats disgusting! Yuk[/b][/color]
[b][color=indigo]Yeah but it was then made[u] haraam [/u]later on by the Sahaba RadiAllahTa'allah Anhu and please don't refer to a Sahaba RA like that, show some respect.
Hadith: I command you to have Taqwa, and to be obedient to those appointed leader over you, even if it be an Abysinnian slave. O my companions, those who live after me will, very soon, see a lot of differences among you. Stick to my path [u]and the path of the Rightly Guided Khalifas.[/u] Abstain from innovations, for every kind of innovation is a Bid’ah, and every Bid’ah is misguidance and all misguidance leads to hellfire.[/color][/b]
Sahih Muslim, Book 008, No. 3263:
'Ali ibn Abi-Talib reported that Allah's Messenger (s.a.w) prohibited on the Day of Khaybar the contracting of temporary marriage with women and the eating of the flesh of domestic donkeys.
Sahih Muslim, Book 008, No. 3255:
Sabra al-Juhanni reported on the authority of his father that while he was with Allah's Messenger (s.a.w) he said: O people, I had permitted you to contract temporary marriage with women, but Allah has forbidden it (now) until the Day of Resurrection. So he who has any (woman with this type of marriage contract) he should let her off, and do not take back anything you have given to them (as dower).
[size=9]I NEVER WORE IT BECAUSE OF THE TALIBAN, MOTHER. I LIKE THE [b]MODESTY[/b] AND [b]PROTECTION[/b] IT AFFORDS ME FROM THE EYES OF MEN.[/size] [url=http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/Dust.html]Dust, X-Men[/url]
lol@laila men scared of getting mugged that's why they hold hands..loooool.
Brother Malik you seem to blame all the ills of the world on Jews and Christians what about ppl of no religion and erm Muslims we have our faults aswell.
like your comment on men holding hands, why say christians always see something homosexual it's not a christian thing, in the uk regardless of religion generally if ppl witnessed this they would assume the guys were homosexuals, coz usually homosexuals behave like this in the west. So naturally they're gona think that.
In certain countries certain traditions are norms, in others they're not and can be deemed as offensive or misunderstood. So something like men holding hands may be ok in eastern countries but in the west it's not. So if these men are in the west they should refrain from doing this, adopt a more acceptable form of affection/greeting each other. If however they don't care then they have to accept the stereotypes, weird looks.
It's not like they can't do without holding hands is it? It's not gona kill them to refrain. I would refrain especially if ppl are thinking i'm gay or something.
And that's a first i've heard about men kissing each other on the neck, in which country? :? I know the arab style hug and kiss, very much like the italian one but on da neck....i admit it makes me feel queasy.
btw Muslims aren't saints they do do "haram acts" how can you make such a false statement? We sin that's why Allah outlines punishments for sins, and paths to forgiveness. If we didn't sin then why would Allah give us such guidelines :? All mankind sins.
I don't think ppl in the West are sexually repressed. Look around you sex is sold everywhere, billboards, magazines, ads. ppl openly speak about sexual relationships in the west. That's part of the problem there's too much of it, there seems to be no set limits. I think that's the cause of many problems such as paedophilia. Incest i don't know how to explain that, it's just too disgusting to think about
Mutah...i don;'t wana get into a long winded debate but it was definately not just for sexual pleasure as you've suggested. open another thread for that topic if u wish. :?
Malik is a sick shia...................people such as malik should be cursed as he has shown disrespect towards Umar (radhiallahanho) and before the forum starts ranting about the harshness of what i wrote, a hadith is present and paraphrased here "where the Holy Prophet (sallallaho alaihaywasallam) asked the sahahba to curse anyone who speaks ill of the sahaba"
What that will all lead to is just at everyones throats on here.
he said they do not follow hadhrat Umar (ra). That is a fact. They don't. That is not an insult.
So, can we please refrain from cursing people on here.
"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.
Well the way i read and understood what he wrote, intepreted as contempt and arrogance !
We (sunnis) know full well how much love & respect shias show towards the two sheikhs (Radhiallah anho) of this ummat of rasool allah (Sallallaho alaihaywasallam).
yeah coz the type of arrogance your showing is soo much better.
why cant u ppl just agree that you hav different views and not get cought cursin each other or any1 else and just learn to live with it that there are people out there who think differently than you.
Back in BLACK
If yu read my posting properly, you would realise that i paraphrased a hadith about "cursing" those who speak ill of the sahaba.
Anyhow, I do not wish to argue about shia followers of islam.