Are Muslim men scared of professional single Muslim women in their thirties?
A recent article on altmuslimah.com entitled “Searching for Khadijah: A boy’s perspective” by Sajid Hassan garnered quite a bit of attention as evidenced by the long string of passionate comments it received, far more than most other articles on Altmuslimah. The article described the pressure that professional Muslim American women face from their families and their social circles to get married in their early twenties, because it becomes much more difficult to find a partner once they hit their thirties.
The article suggested that Muslim men are more interested in marrying younger women than women in their thirties, and described the author’s own experience with his quest to defy these social norms in the American Muslim community by searching for a bride that was older than him.
It is difficult to obtain objective statistical data on the marriage pool of American Muslims, but based on my own anecdotal experiences, I can confirm that the American Muslim community indeed encourages men to marry younger women, leaving single Muslim women in their thirties who are interested in getting married to choose from a limited selection of potential candidates. Some friends of ours recently chaperoned a “match-making” evening for single Muslims in the Chicago suburbs, and it appeared that the female to male ratio was 3:1 for single Muslims in their thirties seeking a spouse. While these are subjective impressions, it may still be a useful exercise to try to analyze this skewed distribution. A so called “ticking reproductive clock” is one of the conventional arguments most often cited to explain why Muslim American men prefer to settle down with women who are in their early twenties. The term refers to the fact that women experience a gradual drop in their fertility as they age, while the incidence of birth defects increases with the age of the child-bearing mother. However, in modern day society couples have a substantially smaller number of children than they did 50 or 100 years ago. Therefore, women who marry in their thirties are often able to have the desired number of children during their child-bearing years without having to feel the pressure of the “reproductive clock”.
I would like to propose a different reason for why Muslim men may be more interested in marrying younger women. While women used to get married at a much younger age in prior centuries, women today often delay their nuptials for the purpose of obtaining graduate education and embarking on a professional career. In the United States, many of the single, professional Muslim women in their thirties have graduate degrees under their belts and are earning an above-average income. The majority of Muslim American men are either immigrants or children of immigrants from the Arab World or South Asia. Often, such immigrant culture is characterized by a strong patriarchal structure. Even second-generation Muslim Americans, who are born and raised in this country, may retain key elements of patriarchal behavior—one being the need to control the finances in the marriage, and thereby sit in the driver’s seat of the relationship. However, if the wives earn as much as or even more than their spouses, it is quite natural for them to also want to have an equal role in making financial decisions. This in turn, makes it very difficult for the men to justify their dominant role in the relationship.
In addition to economic empowerment, graduate education can also transform the mind-set of students. Most good graduate programs in the sciences or humanities require their students to analyze texts, challenge existing theories, and argue their hypotheses and findings in front of an audience, all the while honing their critical thinking skills. It is only natural for graduate students to carry this training into their personal lives, applying it to their faith, friendships and relationships. To take it one step further, higher education furnishes a person with the intellectual confidence and critical thinking skills to clearly distinguish between cultural norms and Islamic philosophy. In his book “Speaking in God's Name: Islamic Law, Authority and Women,” Khaled Abou El-Fadl posited that some Muslim scholars may selectively read religious texts in a manner that justifies the imposition of patriarchal thought. Unlike a young woman in her early twenties, a Muslim American female in her thirties, armed with a graduate degree/s, possesses the ability to question this conflation of culture and religion, and threaten her husband’s patriarchal authority in the marriage.
While there may be many reasons behind Muslim men’s disinterest in considering Muslim women in their thirties as viable marriage candidates, the threat this particular segment of women poses to patriarchal structures remains a key reason. There is a need for introspection amongst Muslim communities which encourage women to marry at a younger age while dissuading men from settling down with older women. Such reflection will likely allow the members of Muslim communities to recognize that these traditional age norms regarding marriage are not really grounded in religious prescriptions or biological reasons, but, instead, are remnants of patriarchal cultures that have limited application today. American Muslim men may have to come to terms with the fact that male-dominated relationships are steadily becoming obsolete, and that they may have to adapt to marital relationships that are based on true partnerships.
This topic is very relevant to me at the moment... It's difficult to discuss with yourself, with your parents and even friends!
I know what the majority of people say and yeah they all prefer the easy uncomplicated way of life (uncomplicated compared to some of the others I know about)
I'm at a point where I need to prioritise what comes first and what comes after the first thing and so on. So I need a bit of help, a bit of an worth having conversation about it with people I don't really know.
At the moment my prioritise are like those that are expected typically from men but that's not why I'm doing it, I will be doing it because I want to and I don't think it's viable to have two major priorities at the same time otherwise it'll take me YEARS AND YEARS to get it done. I don't want to wait till I'm 60 to be a business woman and neither do I want to be singled out for being "old and single" if this plan goes ahead)
Is this natural? does everyone go through this once in their lifetime? (well it's not the first time I've thought about it)
What would YOU like to do?
Do you (all the ladies) care about your biological clock ticking? keeping in mind all those scientific advances like IVf and blah blah...
Do men care about women's biological clock ticking?
Are you (as a muslim man) scared to be with a not so young person?
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ncxk88jZ0A
Not scared just like my steak young and tender
I don't like the idea of being an old mum or being old and single or marrying someone so much younger than me...
Why can't you get married and become a business woman at the same time?
Get married as soon as you graduate - (women). And men, as soon as you're in a stable job.
Women - further study, working, exams etc can continue even after marriage and with kids. Its dfficult but not impossible - life doesnt stop after marriage, it only begins.
I read somewhere once that women getting into their 30's and then not being able to find compatible matches was a major problem for the Muslim community in Canada (and that they would all be in "asian night clubs" waiting for their mister right who would never turn up as he would have probably got married a decade earlier).
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"Honourable people don't do anything in the name of honour." You, circa January 2011 "Be good, do good and God will help you."
I'd rather do good in One thing then to mess up both.
Isn't it in Islamic morals to WANT to get married for the right reason? and not because you're young or you'll miss your window after a couple more years...
And where did the kids come from, they're not even on my list forget being the least favourite on the priority list... If I ever have one it'd be just to see what it (he/she) looks like
lol I kid I kid (not really)
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ncxk88jZ0A
I was talking about me not you... (kids, marriage at youngish age...)
Why can't you get married for the sake of it/because you want to AND carry on with your career. If you're not thinking of having kids then it's not really gonna affect you in a negative way is it? You just gotta find someone who is happy for you to carry on doing what you want to do.
And you never know, being married may actually help you, rather than hinder your plans.
I think marriage is just a natural part of life and you can do it in conjunction with other things. People get married and carry on working after all. How long will it take you to become a successful career woman? If you want to get married, do you really want to wait that long? Or are you willing to lose out on good potential husbands and have a hard time looking for one later?
Are there wrong reasons to get married?
Meaning that we are not providing discussion or are we providing the wrong answers?
The thing about marriage is that if you want someone age appropriate, free stock will dwindle over time.
and doing "business" or whatever does not have to be in opposition to marriage. I am sure people manage to do both at the same time.
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"Honourable people don't do anything in the name of honour." You, circa January 2011 "Be good, do good and God will help you."
it really depends on your view of marriage. coz everyone's different. Tpos' one allows her to marry AND have a career. and so does my view. but it seems Ocean's isnt too keen on that.
and if your reason is because you dont want to mess up both, then maybe you need to think. HOW will you mess up both? is it really going to get messed up?
it also depends on your priorities
mine (please dont kill me) is pleasing Allah and getting into Jannah. so whatever helps me do that gets first priority.
edit: and gee thanks about the "i knew i was asking the wrong people"... that's what happen with the real world. people dont act like you expected them to. or wanted them to.not that im saying you did either. just musing...
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Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary?
See that's one risk I'm scared to take. I know myself, I can do one or the other... One would be to please the society and parents (who will still be pleased if it happens some years later than now) but I will potentially be committing professional suicide!
I don't like the idea of an empty marriage, a partnership based on schmexual pleasure ALONE... And if you solve that problem, it ends up in having kids... See how risky the whole routine becomes? Because I wouldn't DARE neglect my kids to be busy with setting up business or whatever! Not the way I've been brought up! And blah de blah
It is easier to just give in and agree to surrender your life plans to the wishes of a man. Sigh man I hate life. These are the years I want to skip. I don't want to have anything to do with them! is there something wrong with me? No one seems to agree or understand the way I see things
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ncxk88jZ0A
Marriage doesn't have to just be about shmex and/or kids.
The guy's supposed to be a lot more than that...
{sigh - I think I'm starting to develop gamophobia}
i know where you're comign from Ocean. but... if your business is going to be pleasing to Allah etc.. then there's no way He wont help you out set it up. trust the Lord.
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Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary?
yup, you get to cook and clean and wash the dishes too.
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"Honourable people don't do anything in the name of honour." You, circa January 2011 "Be good, do good and God will help you."
thank you local marriageophobic. you may leave now.
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Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary?
Oh no you don't! Don't try and guilt trip me into doing stuff I don't want to. If I'm happy people around me are happy and if I'm not neither are them people so see the symbiotic relationship I have with people?
And plus, I can make excuses abt whatever I do and extract an islamically contaminated positive out of every ambition I may have! However worldly it may look!
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ncxk88jZ0A
Like what?
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ncxk88jZ0A
it;s not about how it "looks" at the end of the day though is it?
if your intention is there. i dont see the problem.
why am i guilty tripping you? im doing the complete opposite. except if you wanna feel guilt tripped.
common, with the right intention, even sleeping can be a source of reward. so i dont see where the problem is, except if you're trying to convince yourself that stripping or something like that is halaal.
seems you came into this conversation on the defensive. ready to hate on everything and anything we say...
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Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary?
errm...friendship, love, support, care 'and more'
Apart from you, Admin is the most pro-marriage person on here!
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Agreed with Lilly's last post.
ocean i understand what you are saying. my view is this so long as you have no urges to do anything haram, then it would be easier for you to get your qualifications and pursue your career at least for a while before getting married. As much as many of the sisters may joke about kids, once you get married usually within the first year a lot of muslim women are pregnant, least those ive known. Once you have a baby your life ends lol. Well it begins in a good way but it is damn hard. i wouldnt want to juggle a child and full time work, a child and housework is fulltime, i just dont believe the child would get the quality care he/she deserves, something has got to give in these situations.
my sister has been juggling work and children for years, she now feels like she missed out on precious moments with her children because of work, for what but a better material life. so shes decided to quit work, her husband will have to provide alone, whatever time she does have left she wants to spend with her children.
For less stress like you said one thing at a time. if i had my time over i would have started my own business rather than going to uni, done that for a few years, then i would have got married.
As far as biology goes if you want children it is wise to get married if possible before 30 rather than after, but its ultimately in Allahs hands if we have children right?
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“O my people! Truly, this life of the world is nothing but a (quick passing) enjoyment, and verily, the hereafter that is the home that will remain forever.” [Ghafir : 39]
new take on this:
have kids EARLY so they grow up when you're still young THEN do your business thingy!
i like! (Y)
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Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary?
yeah but young as in what age? After a-levels of after uni? i wouldn't be duped by this if my parents had said you have to get married after uni i would have thought...wait i did a degree to go an wash dishes and be a baby machine?..i dont think so. surely after qualifying a woman would want to work for a while otherwise whats the point of uni. i know youre gona say get married and work, but those that do have a short lived working life they get pregnant fast lol.
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“O my people! Truly, this life of the world is nothing but a (quick passing) enjoyment, and verily, the hereafter that is the home that will remain forever.” [Ghafir : 39]
why not after A-level? you bothkeep studying and get on with your career. and if Allah wants you to have kids then its gona happen. iwont personally fight it. coz well...bringing up the kids and looking after the hubby is MAJOR reward. but if ihad the opportunity (aka not have kids withing first year or whatever) then i would get on with life.
plus you can do so much from home so...
but thats just my view through my beautiful evenly tinted pink shades
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Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary?
tinted mm very tinted lol. i dont get no time to myself at all sometimes i am really depressed about it especially when the kids have been very naughty, i just think i wish i could go somewhere and hide away. There are lots of things i want to do, but i dont think i can ever do them with the children. No one to leave the children with they are a 24hr job. unless u are blessed to have parent or in laws to help out then there's no breather. Kids are a blessing indeed but the reality is kids crave attention all the time, i wouldnt want to juggle them at study. i tried a short course and within a few days i decided no i dont have the time for homework.
Want a lie in..forget it? Want time to revise for that exam, what exam the baby is crying she needs her bottle. want to wake up extra early to get some "me" time do salat alone without kids screaming?...tip toe down kids tip toe down with you.
im saying its hard with kids i wouldnt recommend uni study with kids in tow. it can be done with lots of help from parents who will babysit the kids, otherwise it will fail.
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“O my people! Truly, this life of the world is nothing but a (quick passing) enjoyment, and verily, the hereafter that is the home that will remain forever.” [Ghafir : 39]
Sorry, just to be irrelevant and comment, this made me laugh.
Don't believe this for one second. How can you just do one thing and not get bored?
It seems, it's not about being bored but just not being able to handle it.
All of this is dependent on a lot of factors. The decision to have children straight after marriage or not is a decision that both the husband and wife actively choose to make or not.
Many women in my family went on to achieve degrees and even completed courses in subjects such as medicine after marriage, they just postponed having babies for a few years.
My mother worked in the NHS up until the birth of her third child....childcare responsibility was divided between her and dad (when dad was at home, mum would work and vice versa).
My sister in law works as a teacher, she has twins under 3. Again, childcare responsibility is divided between her parents, her in laws and her husband.
But agreed, that most of this is dependent on the help available from friends and family.
true i agree with muslimsister support network is vital. hence it doesnt work for me, ive got no support. Some may rely on professional childcare but id rather not, thats simply my choice, i dont look down on those who choose to or need to use childcare everyone has their own reasons for doing things.
SBF said something about getting bored, well i never thought about the boredom, seriously no time to get bored theres too much to do, do you want my schedule?....i wouldnt mind some help lol. like powerofsilence said its about handling it, i couldnt foresee taking on a course of study or a job i wouldnt be able to juggle it.
i never worked much but i know i get bored easily in jobs, so if i took a job it would have to be something that would be "different" everyday and fulfilling, but i know work isnt just about wants its about the essential things like paying the bills putting food on the table, so a lot of people also do boring monotonous jobs too. Caring for small children can be challenging and far from boring.
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“O my people! Truly, this life of the world is nothing but a (quick passing) enjoyment, and verily, the hereafter that is the home that will remain forever.” [Ghafir : 39]
Oh! That's some REAL advice there! THANK YOU Hajjar! AT LASSSSST someone who truly understands my dilemma!
Aww bless you, did you have a girl recently? I can give you a hand over the weekends
I'm coming up to Lanark (very close to Glasgow) so... yeah let me know! 
I know how hard being a mum is just by sitting at the kitchen table and watching my mum. Whenever I go I'm always observing her. I think she made the worst decision by having a forth child in her 40s, it's kind of messed everything up although I love my lil sister to bits! My mum is so old now < that's one thing I can't get over because I remember her being bubbly and positive and the soul of a party back in Saudi... My dad hasn't changed except he's weaker and old
Anyways back to the subject; I'm sooooooooooo not ready and plus I actually want to make use of my uni stuff. The only reason I went back last year was because I was promised a bit of ambition-production and so I'm gonna do what I had planned to do originally. If I wanted to be a housewife, I would have done it YEARS AGO! just like the younger girls on here feel it necessary...
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ncxk88jZ0A
Aint that problem solved then? You do know what you want/need, no?
And I see you used the plural - girlS and only me and Lilly have posted n here and I said I think I'm developing gamophobia. {shakes head}
What's Gamophobia?
and I wasn't talking about you two ONLY I know of PLENTY of non-revival younger ladies
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ncxk88jZ0A
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