VOICE OF THE MUSLIM YOUTH: Cousin Marriages

Cousin Marriage is a massive issue especially amongst Asian Muslims in the UK. It divides the Muslim community like nothing else. You're either dead against it because of cultural and medical reasons or its 'cousin marriage or no marriage' in your parents eyes. Mainly it's parents who favour it and the youth who oppose it. The Revival spoke to the Muslim Youth across the UK to get their views on cousin marriages:

Farzana Patel, 25, Bury

I am all for cousin marriages and I don’t see anything wrong with it. The scientific point that people who marry their cousins have defective children is a load of rubbish, because if it was true all or majority of disabled children would have parents who are cousins.

From a religious point of view there is no prohibition at all, so why should we prohibit it socially? Me and my partner are cousins and I found it an advantage that I knew him and his family, so he wasn’t a stranger and I felt comfortable.

Mohsin Shahid, 25, Oldham

Do I think one should marry their cousin? No. There are several reasons for this. Many people in our communities do not realise what the medical problems are, such as hereditary illnesses. Our parents deny this over and over again, claiming that ‘we didn’t have these problems and look at us - we’re cousins’. However, what they fail to see is that one, or both, of them might be carriers of illnesses or have a recessive gene which can lie dormant for generations, but then be passed onto a child or grandchild.

Another reason is that when you marry your cousins, you can’t be as open with them as you would with an ‘outsider’- you end up treating them like you do your sister! You may accept someone as a spouse when you marry them, but I don’t think you can enjoy your life in the same way as you would if you didn’t marry a cousin. Likewise, your wife also cannot be as open with you, i.e. she might not raise any issues concerning her in fear of upsetting your parents who are either her aunty or uncle.

If someone WANTS to marry their cousin then I think that’s fine. But forcing someone to marry their cousin is bad. My advice is that if someone is going to marry their cousin, they should at least have a medical checkup. Our people might see this as a bad thing, disrespectful even, but I think that this is a necessary precaution.

Sadia Hussain, 23, Bradford

In my family, many of our cousins have some sort of disability because not only are their parents first cousins, but the entire family is inter-related. When you confront them, they insist that they’re not disabled because of the close relations; it’s just ‘Allah’s Will’.

Then there’s the issue of divorce. If one couple get divorced it effects the entire family, not just the two particular individuals. I remember when my sister got divorced, it caused so much drama and half the family stopped talking to her and my parents.

I too got married ‘in the family’, but at least my husband and I are not first cousins; we’re distantly related, which is at least better.

Abdul Ali, 23, Crawley

I think it’s wrong because you’re brought up to treat them as though they’re your brothers/sisters. Plus if something goes wrong, it’s awkward when you see them afterwards, because they’re still part of your family.

Nadia Ali, 26, Derby

Many people in our communities marry their children to cousins for several reasons. One is that the Prophet (pbuh) married his daughter Fatima (ra) to HER cousin, i.e. his (pbuh) nephew. So if the prophet (pbuh) did it, then they believe that they should also. Our older generation think that if they have a daughter-in-law who is their niece, i.e. their brother or sister’s daughter, then she will look after them better when they get older than an unrelated daughter-in-law would.

I myself married a cousin and it did not work out. In my opinion most of the people I know that are against cousin marriages are those that have had bad experiences. I do know people though who HAPPILY went ‘back home’ to marry a cousin and masha’Allah they are very happily married. My own parents are first cousins and have a very happy and loving marriage.

Syma Ahmed 22, Huddersfield

Having a Pakistani background, I view the issue of 'cousin marriages' with cultural sensitivity and an open mind. My very own family has pursued this practice. Setting aside the moral disdain people generally have for cousin marriages, my problem with this practice derives from the physical and social consequences that I have come to witness.

Firstly, the increased risk of genetic disease has become widely acknowledged. In Britain we learnt this in GCSE science, where we found that when two carriers of a disease reproduce there is a good chance their offspring will become a sufferer; family members who share the same genes therefore, and are carriers, are more likely to reproduce a child with a genetic disease.

My biggest frustration is the unwillingness of many Pakistani people to even accept this as a possibility. Many parents believe these children would have been born with disorders anyway had their parents not been related. What is mind-boggling is the conviction of such statements. It seems to me that science is appreciated in the form of modern medicines, but becomes the enemy when it stands against cultural traditions. This is what I see as blissful ignorance. They refuse to acknowledge what is happening and carry on with these practices, blaming it on 'kismat' (destiny) when things go wrong.

"Why marry your cousin?" The basic answer is to uphold the hierarchy that predominates in Pakistani families of course, where the so-called elders rule with an iron fist. The idea of 'respecting your elders' to me is something that should be done and should be a way of life, though I have come to realise this phrase has been used as a tool of oppression.

Women are told to marry internally so that they will continue to 'belong' to the family. Their labour, their time, their space is owned by the family, and this continues when she marries her cousin. For the boy, mother-in-laws are instantly jealous of women who threaten to take away their sons.

These are generalisations and the issue is much too complicated to be conveyed here. However, what I will say is that in the C4 programme a father-in-law claimed he wanted his niece to marry his son because the bond of love is already there. I think it’s more the case that it’s hard in Britain to find a daughter-in-law who will do the constant bidding of the in-laws without it ending in divorce two years later.

Cousin marriages are not about two people simply coming together to get married; it’s a mechanism to uphold the family order, it’s about the paranoia of an outsider marrying into the family, but more importantly it’s a source of protection for certain members of the family who want the world to continue revolving around them.

Jamal Khan, 34, Sheffield

If cousin marriages, like any marriage, are done without force and with the full consent of the man and woman, and with the couple being compatible with each other, then I say 'why not'? My problem with cousin marriages is that most cousins who marry don't really have a choice; it's either marry this cousin or that cousin... not marry whoever is compatible with you, because marrying outside the family is seen as a crime.

My biggest issue with cousin marriages is that if it doesn't work out and the couple divorce then many, many families, and even generations, fall out for life, unlike in non-cousin marriages where only the couple or the two families are affected.

Haffsah Nazir, 22, Rochdale

To put it simply, I think marriages between cousins are wrong. Your cousins are your extended family, and should be treated like brothers and sisters, not potential life partners. Yet there seems to be a lasting tendency for parents to arrange cousin marriages whilst children are still toddlers.

More than anything else I believe it is emotional blackmail that ‘encourages’ young Muslims to marry within the family, and it’s a real shame that parents make their children feel as though they should ‘repay’ them through marriage.

I think it’s unfair that many young people are not given a degree of freedom and choice when choosing the person they are ultimately likely to spend the rest of their lives with. I also believe that on issues such as this, the generation gap is becoming much more apparent.

On top of this there are a whole load of medical factors that come into play with cousin marriages, and again I feel this is unfair on all persons involved, although I am ignorantly unaware of the facts around this.

Nazia Salim, 27, London

Fortunately growing up, I knew that cousin marriage would never be an issue in my life. My parents were not cousins, nor were any of my grandparents. I was also lucky enough not to have any male cousins near my age. I felt sorry for school friends that were expected to marry their cousins when they grew up.

I am happily married to someone who is not related to me at all. I’ve enjoyed getting to know my husband; where he went to university, what he got up to at school, the part time jobs he did growing up, and I’ve enjoyed getting to know his family members too. This information wouldn’t have been new to me if he was a cousin of mine.

My husband and I are very protective about our privacy and have a zero tolerance approach for any interference in our marriage. This is easily done, because I don’t have a double relationship with anyone in our family. This wouldn’t have been the case if I had married into the family. I also don’t have the fear that if (God forbid) my husband and I were to divorce, it would cause a huge family feud and a divide within the family.

My marriage is interesting and fun – that’s because even after two years of marriage I’m still getting to know my husband. I wouldn’t have had that level of mystery if I had married a cousin.

Yaqub Maqsood, 32, Leicester

I’m married to my cousin from Pakistan and it's been a happy 6 years so far alhamdulillah. I wasn’t forced into marriage, and got to know her well before we married. I have two sons now who are masha' Allah healthy and as active as ever. So I suppose I am proof that cousin marriages do and can work… the secret is to buy your own house and not let the ‘aunties’ interfere lol. The key is that you are compatible with each other and after that you put in 100% effort if you want your marriage to last forever and want to live happily ever after!

Most of my relatives have had cousin marriages and to be honest some haven’t worked out, but others are happy and dandy! It’s a shame that a lot of people don’t really get a choice when it comes to marrying their cousin and a lot are emotionally blackmailed! Also if (God forbid) it doesn’t work out then hundreds of families here and abroad completely fall out for years, if not life!

Even though I’m not against cousin marriages I wouldn’t want my kids to marry their cousins because of the reasons I’ve mentioned, but mainly because my grandparents, parents and me have all married first cousins, and the gene pool now will be so weak that I think my kids are at a ‘higher risk’ of having disabled children… and I don’t want to gamble with their lives. I'd rather they marry anyone compatible and Islamic and avoid all the cousin marriage politics altogether.

Shamila, 22, Shipley

I think the only people that want cousin marriages are the parents. No person in their right mind would happily marry their cousin if there wasn't some sort of family pressure. Our cousins are like brothers and sisters - particularly in close knit families.

Parents want their kids to marry their cousins for their own self-interests. They dress it up by saying it’s the Islamic thing to do when Islam does not encourage or discourage it.

Parents want their kids to marry cousins because they think that a related daughter-in-law is more likely to treat them well and look after them, regardless of whether she’s the right girl for their son, thereby acting in their own interests.

Generations of cousin marriages lead to a limited gene pool too, so scientifically it can't be a good thing either.

Comments

ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE wrote:
Like I said - Islam doesn't openly recommend or make it a vital condition for marriage, so since you can see the risks are getting higher by every generation then it's fine for you to say no to cousin marriage.

But please do not think it's Islam's mistake.

Look at the quote I posted

Quranic law of inheritance through the daughter as well as the son encouraged first-cousin marriage in order to keep wealth in the family

At least you agree that if the risks are high then cousin marriage should be avoided

My English is not very good

Where did you get that quote from?

"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi

stopincest wrote:

Wikipedia wrote:

It has been proposed that the Quranic law of inheritance through the daughter as well as the son encouraged first-cousin marriage in order to keep wealth in the family. Among Islamic societies this rule has not always been followed, but where it was, marrying a first cousin prevented familial wealth from escaping to another clan

That is just utter greed in my view

Oh right, missed that post.

You are misreading it - Islam does NOT encourage it but the people want to keep the money in the family therefore they continue to get their children married to cousins or (it's like the way the Royal family marries in the family too.)
Yes you are right, the PEOPLE are greedy. But Islam does not advocate this greediness.

(By the way, remember you can't always trust wikipedia and whoever wrote that may have wanted it to sound bad etc!)

"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi

I find the amount of times I've seen Qur'an spelt with a lowercase 'q' in this conversation SERIOUSLY annoying.

It's not hard, people. And I'm not being a Grammar Nazi, it's called showing a little respect.

#Before you look at the thorns of the rose , look at it's beauty. Before you complain about the heat of the sun , enjoy it's light. Before you complain about the blackness of the night, think of it's peace and quiet... #

ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE wrote:
stopincest wrote:

Wikipedia wrote:

It has been proposed that the Quranic law of inheritance through the daughter as well as the son encouraged first-cousin marriage in order to keep wealth in the family. Among Islamic societies this rule has not always been followed, but where it was, marrying a first cousin prevented familial wealth from escaping to another clan

That is just utter greed in my view

Oh right, missed that post.

You are misreading it - Islam does NOT encourage it but the people want to keep the money in the family therefore they continue to get their children married to cousins or (it's like the way the Royal family marries in the family too.)
Yes you are right, the PEOPLE are greedy. But Islam does not advocate this greediness.

(By the way, remember you can't always trust wikipedia and whoever wrote that may have wanted it to sound bad etc!)

How am I misreading it? it says

Wikipedia wrote:

It has been proposed that the Quranic law of inheritance through the daughter as well as the son encouraged first-cousin marriage in order to keep wealth in the family. Among Islamic societies this rule has not always been followed, but where it was, marrying a first cousin prevented familial wealth from escaping to another clan

Why would wikipedia lie?

Just because the Royal family did it in the past does not make it right but having said that they have moved on from it Kate and William are not cousins, The Muslims have not moved on from it and that is the problem

OK Islam does not advocate greediness but it comes with cousin marriage

My English is not very good

MakeMeRawr_8TeenF wrote:
I find the amount of times I've seen Qur'an spelt with a lowercase 'q' in this conversation SERIOUSLY annoying.

It's not hard, people. And I'm not being a Grammar Nazi, it's called showing a little respect.

+1. (even though i didnt really notice the Quran typos)

im not a gramma Nazi, but im definitly a CAPITAL LETTERS NAZI, os be VERY afraid.
____

okay, wikipedia is saying:

It has been proposed that the Quranic law of inheritance through the daughter as well as the son encouraged first-cousin marriage in order to keep wealth in the family.

how is this mentionning facts? its just a FREAKING OPINION! and you're using it to... euh... back up your point that Quran encourages cousin marriage? WHAT WHAT WHAT?!?!

___
about Aisha (RA)'s marriage, let me quote myself

who are we to question what Allah has predestined? There must a greater wisdom behind it that we cannot grasp.

and in answer to your Q's:

stopincest wrote:
But why did Jibreel tell him to marry her for him self, Why did Jibreel not tell him to marry her to some one else?
Jibreel 'alaihissalaam didnt TELL Muhammad (phub) to marry Aish, He Passed On Allah subhanahou wata'ala words. He passed Allah subhanahou wata'ala's ORDERS

_____

and finally to something you said stopincest:

If they knew the negative effects of cousin marriage that we do now then I am sure it would have been banned in the Quran

you DO realise that the Quran is Allah's words. Like Allah spoke (in a way unlike his creation) these words. sometimes to Jibreel who passed them on, sometimes straight to the prophet. SO im pretty sure GOD, the CREATOR of EVERYTHING, the one who CREATED TIME, knew of the "negative effects of cousin marriage".
______

a word of advice: take everything in the Quran and Sunnah as utterly and a hundred percently TRUE. then reject and accept human-made ideas AROUND it.

Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary?

Lilly wrote:
MakeMeRawr_8TeenF wrote:
I find the amount of times I've seen Qur'an spelt with a lowercase 'q' in this conversation SERIOUSLY annoying.

It's not hard, people. And I'm not being a Grammar Nazi, it's called showing a little respect.

+1. (even though i didnt really notice the Quran typos)

im not a gramma Nazi, but im definitly a CAPITAL LETTERS NAZI, os be VERY afraid.
____

okay, wikipedia is saying:

It has been proposed that the Quranic law of inheritance through the daughter as well as the son encouraged first-cousin marriage in order to keep wealth in the family.

how is this mentionning facts? its just a FREAKING OPINION! and you're using it to... euh... back up your point that Quran encourages cousin marriage? WHAT WHAT WHAT?!?!

___
about Aisha (RA)'s marriage, let me quote myself

who are we to question what Allah has predestined? There must a greater wisdom behind it that we cannot grasp.

and in answer to your Q's:

stopincest wrote:
But why did Jibreel tell him to marry her for him self, Why did Jibreel not tell him to marry her to some one else?
Jibreel 'alaihissalaam didnt TELL Muhammad (phub) to marry Aish, He Passed On Allah subhanahou wata'ala words. He passed Allah subhanahou wata'ala's ORDERS

_____

and finally to something you said stopincest:

If they knew the negative effects of cousin marriage that we do now then I am sure it would have been banned in the Quran

you DO realise that the Quran is Allah's words. Like Allah spoke (in a way unlike his creation) these words. sometimes to Jibreel who passed them on, sometimes straight to the prophet. SO im pretty sure GOD, the CREATOR of EVERYTHING, the one who CREATED TIME, knew of the "negative effects of cousin marriage".
______

a word of advice: take everything in the Quran and Sunnah as utterly and a hundred percently TRUE. then reject and accept human-made ideas AROUND it.

wikipedia is only saying it because it must be in the Quran it is not saying it for other religons because its not in other religons

Why did Allah want the prophet to marry a girl so young when he was way older then her and he was married before, If it was a lady his age then its ok but 6 or 9 is not ok

My English is not very good

stopincest wrote:

How am I misreading it? it says

Wikipedia wrote:

It has been proposed that the Quranic law of inheritance through the daughter as well as the son encouraged first-cousin marriage in order to keep wealth in the family. Among Islamic societies this rule has not always been followed, but where it was, marrying a first cousin prevented familial wealth from escaping to another clan

Why would wikipedia lie?

Just because the Royal family did it in the past does not make it right but having said that they have moved on from it Kate and William are not cousins, The Muslims have not moved on from it and that is the problem

OK Islam does not advocate greediness but it comes with cousin marriage

Encouraged is not the same as advocated. It never said it!

Your example is like saying the verses which talk about killing the kufr are telling people to commit acts of terroism in the name of "jihad".

When they are NOT.

Secondly, you are quoting wikipedia like as if it is some sort of authoritative work when it can be written and edited by any layman - you, me and any member of the BNP!

It is NOT always correct and just because it says it most definitely does not mean it's true.

It certainly wouldn't be an acceptable reference for my cousework etc!

"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi

stopincest wrote:

Why did Allah want the prophet to marry a girl so young when he was way older then her and he was married before, If it was a lady his age then its ok but 6 or 9 is not ok


We are not shaykhs, we cannot give you a proper, knowledgeable answer. Sorry. (please go ask one, instead of turning to google/wikipedia)

"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi

ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE wrote:

Encouraged is not the same as advocated

How is Encouraged different to Advocated?

#Before you look at the thorns of the rose , look at it's beauty. Before you complain about the heat of the sun , enjoy it's light. Before you complain about the blackness of the night, think of it's peace and quiet... #

stopincest wrote:
Just because the Royal family did it in the past does not make it right but having said that they have moved on from it Kate and William are not cousins, The Muslims have not moved on from it and that is the problem.

Islam is not a social club - rulings should not be changed in order to increase acceptance and membership. Some things there is leeway in, but others not so much.

There is a difference between when man makes rules willy nilly and when the rules are taken from a divine source of guidance (though even here, there can be interpretations - though that is not the case here).

In the former, people will make whatever rules they see fit, in the latter they would use the sources to make the rules and the rules would be limited by the possibilities allowed for in the sources.

Even when using your argument of the Royals having moved on, it is not illegal in the UK to marry cousins, and that is a society as you mentioned that has "moved on".

You have to realise that Islam is not there to cater for your every whim and desire.

It will some times seem rigid - even if in this case it is more libertarian than your views are.

You don't have to marry your cousins etc. However saying that Islam is wrong when it says that it is allowed is simply a step too far. Saying the qur'an is wrong is kufr.

I will say that people should think twice before marrying cousins too, but banning it is not anything I have any right to even suggest. When it comes to allowances and prohibitions set in the Qur'an (and I realise I am the person in the main not capitalising it :oops:), it is not for me to override them. I simply do not have the authority.

Suggesting that the qur'an is wrong or that the prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wa Sallam (Peace and Blessings be upon him) did wrong is a clear no no. The prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wa Sallam (Peace and Blessings be upon him) is the embodiment of the qur'an and the best guide to mankind and if some actions make you baulk, then the problem is with your thinking and that needs to be changed to fit in with what the qur'an and hadith suggest, not the other way around.

(Islam also allows and encourage people to work and earn a living. Would you also consider that greed?)

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

MakeMeRawr_8TeenF wrote:
ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE wrote:

Encouraged is not the same as advocated

How is Encouraged different to Advocated?


i dunno if i meant a different word but like the example i gave kinda explains that better i think. but like i meant the Qur'an saying that *makes people want to* be greedy and keep everything in the family - its not like the Qur'an say you should marry your cousins to keep all your wealth! (does that make sense?)

"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi

stop wrote:
wikipedia is only saying it because it must be in the Quran it is not saying it for other religons because its not in other religons

Why did Allah want the prophet to marry a girl so young when he was way older then her and he was married before, If it was a lady his age then its ok but 6 or 9 is not ok

ahh because now Wikipedia reads the Quran?
__
why are you questionning us about what Allah chose to do (and i already answered)

me wrote:
who are we to question what Allah has predestined? There must a greater wisdom behind it that we cannot grasp.

you're asking too many why's and you're not a kid anymore..soon you might be asking Q's that'll take you out of Islam.

here's an example from a book i recently read:

Imaam Malik rahimahullah, was asked about [how Allah made] al-Istawa to which he replied, "Al-Istawa is knowb and how is unknown. to have faith in it is obligatory and to question [how] is an innovation" then he said to the questionner, "I do not think except that you are an evil man!" so he ordered him to be expelled

[size=7](related by al-Bayhaqi in al-Asma was-Sifaat (p.516) with the wording: "al-Istiwa is not unknown. to have Imaan in it is obligatory and to question it is innovation" Al-Albani said that the narration was established in Mukhtasar al-Uluw (p141). Al-Bayhaqi also related (p516), as does ad-Darimi in ar-Radd 'alal Jaymiyah (p55) - with a Jayyid Isnad, As Ibn Hajr says in Faith-ul-Baree (13/406) that Imaam Malik said: "Ar-Rahmaan [Allah] ascended as He Himself described, and it is not to be asked "How" as how is unknown" [/size]

i would actually recommend the book itself, (which i havent finished myself) it's entitled "The correct Islamic Aqidah and that which opposes it" by Shaykh abdul-'Aziz Ibn Baaz

just be careful what you are asking for. and okay, intention is important, but in this example Imaam Ahmed didnt even asked for the questionner's intention...

Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary?

You wrote:
stopincest wrote:
Just because the Royal family did it in the past does not make it right but having said that they have moved on from it Kate and William are not cousins, The Muslims have not moved on from it and that is the problem.

Islam is not a social club - rulings should not be changed in order to increase acceptance and membership. Some things there is leeway in, but others not so much.

There is a difference between when man makes rules willy nilly and when the rules are taken from a divine source of guidance (though even here, there can be interpretations - though that is not the case here).

In the former, people will make whatever rules they see fit, in the latter they would use the sources to make the rules and the rules would be limited by the possibilities allowed for in the sources.

Even when using your argument of the Royals having moved on, it is not illegal in the UK to marry cousins, and that is a society as you mentioned that has "moved on".

You have to realise that Islam is not there to cater for your every whim and desire.

It will some times seem rigid - even if in this case it is more libertarian than your views are.

You don't have to marry your cousins etc. However saying that Islam is wrong when it says that it is allowed is simply a step too far. Saying the qur'an is wrong is kufr.

I will say that people should think twice before marrying cousins too, but banning it is not anything I have any right to even suggest. When it comes to allowances and prohibitions set in the Qur'an (and I realise I am the person in the main not capitalising it :oops:), it is not for me to override them. I simply do not have the authority.

Suggesting that the qur'an is wrong or that the prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wa Sallam (Peace and Blessings be upon him) did wrong is a clear no no. The prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wa Sallam (Peace and Blessings be upon him) is the embodiment of the qur'an and the best guide to mankind and if some actions make you baulk, then the problem is with your thinking and that needs to be changed to fit in with what the qur'an and hadith suggest, not the other way around.

(Islam also allows and encourage people to work and earn a living. Would you also consider that greed?)

Then how about if people start to leave Islam because of 1 rule they don’t like that way Islam will have no followers left and a religion is followed by the people and if there are no followers then the religion dies out

Its not illegal in the UK because the royal family did it so they don’t have the grounds to ban it in that sense and a lot of Muslims live there and if they were to banned it there would be trouble, Muslims would pull put out the race card when ever there is such talk this kind of thing happens, lets hope it does become illegal in the whole world not only UK

You say that "You don't have to marry your cousins" try telling that to any Pakistani family in the world

Thank god you do admit that people should think twice before marrying cousins but that’s all well and good with Pakistani families there is NO choice its we are your parents we know what’s best that’s it don't question it just like you are saying to me don't question religion

I don’t mean the Quran is wrong what I am saying is that allowing cousin marriage is wrong and not stopping this sick corrupt is even worse

Earning a living is not greed it’s meant to feed your self and your family, forcing your children to marry there cousin’s to keep wealth and land in the family is what I conceder greed

My English is not very good

ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE wrote:
MakeMeRawr_8TeenF wrote:
ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE wrote:

Encouraged is not the same as advocated

How is Encouraged different to Advocated?


i dunno if i meant a different word but like the example i gave kinda explains that better i think. but like i meant the Qur'an saying that *makes people want to* be greedy and keep everything in the family - its not like the Qur'an say you should marry your cousins to keep all your wealth! (does that make sense?)

I don't understand, It does say encouraged

Why did they Quran even advocate it then?

The meanings of encourage and advocate are below

Advocate

To stimulate by assistance, approval, etc.: 3. to promote, advance, or foster

Encourage

to speak or write in favor of; support or urge by argument

There does not seem to be much Difference they both promote or speak in favor which is the same

My English is not very good

stopincest wrote:
Then how about if people start to leave Islam because of 1 rule they don’t like that way Islam will have no followers left and a religion is followed by the people and if there are no followers then the religion dies out

and why is that a problem?

Islam is not a social club.

If people say that "its ok, you can forget about the qur'an and sunnah" etc when it comes to issues, that doesn't matter as its not just the numbers that people count that matter - true judgement is in front of Allah (swt) and there the beliefs count.

Surah Baqarah verse 208 tells us to "enter Islam fully" (udkhuloo fis silmi kaafah). It is not a matter you can pick and choose on. Leave that for the other religions.

(I have not linked to the translation on this site here as that seems to miss out translating the word "kaafah" and simply translated the words as "enter the peace" without mentioning that it has to be fully/wholeheartedly as the arabic says.)

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

stopincest wrote:
Why did they Quran even advocate it then?

It allowed cousin marriage.

Now the question is do we trust the qur'an and God?

I hope the answer is a resounding "yes".

You need to mould your mind around what is allowed and not allowed instead of trying to mould Islam around what your mind says here. This is a concept called loving and hating things for the sake of God.

The reasons is that all of us will come across things which we will find hard to accept due to either lack of understanding or due to other predispositions on the matters at hand. We may already have prejudiced views on what is allowed or not.

When it comes to such a place, it is important to explore to see what the limits are that Islam allows, and then it is important to fit within them.

In this case, that is allowing cousin marriage. (I have never heard a scholar of any group ban it, and it is unanimously allowed as far as I am aware by all schools of thought, all creeds within Islam and all scholars.)

It may not be easy to mould your mind around what Islam says on this matter, but you must, for your own good.

(others will have other challenges. Some will question or not understand other aspects, or they will not want to abide by the rules banning zina, alcohol, pork etc.)

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

You wrote:
stopincest wrote:
Then how about if people start to leave Islam because of 1 rule they don’t like that way Islam will have no followers left and a religion is followed by the people and if there are no followers then the religion dies out

and why is that a problem?

Islam is not a social club.

If people say that "its ok, you can forget about the qur'an and sunnah" etc when it comes to issues, that doesn't matter as its not just the numbers that people count that matter - true judgement is in front of Allah (swt) and there the beliefs count.

Surah Baqarah verse 208 tells us to "enter Islam fully" (udkhuloo fis silmi kaafah). It is not a matter you can pick and choose on. Leave that for the other religions.

(I have not linked to the translation on this site here as that seems to miss out translating the word "kaafah" and simply translated the words as "enter the peace" without mentioning that it has to be fully/wholeheartedly as the arabic says.)

As I said religion is because of its followers

I never said you can forget about the Quran and sunnah what I am saying is people should use there common sense and stop marring there cousin brothers and sisters
you can be a Muslim and not marry your cousin if you are saying just because the Quran has allowed and encouraged cousin marriage and that’s why we should follow it and not worry about the out come then that’s just as wrong as saying you can forget about the Quran and sunnah

My English is not very good

dude you sound quite bitter. sounds like your parents are trying to marry you off to your cousin or what?

you've build this whole case against cousin marriage, its quite funny, especially because you have no control over who you will fall in love with, hahaha...someone like..euh...cousin?! who knows? Only Allah does eh?

why are we talking about everyone leaving Islam? thats like everyone going crazy and living the truth for falsehood? you think EVERYONE will do that? especially if its the TRUTH?! and ONLY TRUTH?! i dont think so. so drop it already.

If i can be bothered i might look for some stats about cousin marriage. or you oculd do that. and show how BAAAAAAAADDDD cousin marriage is. instead of opiniating everything. It's getting really annoying, you have no back up for none of your points...

what else? we've established the fact that this sentence you quoted from wiki was an OPINION (just like the rest of you actually). so whether it says advocate or encourage DOESNT MATTER anymore. its just SOMEONE's OPINION.

Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary?

You wrote:
stopincest wrote:
Why did they Quran even advocate it then?

It allowed cousin marriage.

Now the question is do we trust the qur'an and God?

I hope the answer is a resounding "yes".

You need to mould your mind around what is allowed and not allowed instead of trying to mould Islam around what your mind says here. This is a concept called loving and hating things for the sake of God.

The reasons is that all of us will come across things which we will find hard to accept due to either lack of understanding or due to other predispositions on the matters at hand. We may already have prejudiced views on what is allowed or not.

When it comes to such a place, it is important to explore to see what the limits are that Islam allows, and then it is important to fit within them.

In this case, that is allowing cousin marriage. (I have never heard a scholar of any group ban it, and it is unanimously allowed as far as I am aware by all schools of thought, all creeds within Islam and all scholars.)

It may not be easy to mould your mind around what Islam says on this matter, but you must, for your own good.

(others will have other challenges. Some will question or not understand other aspects, or they will not want to abide by the rules banning zina, alcohol, pork etc.)

The Quran not only allowed it but encouraged it
The answer is Yes
I can never mould my mind around incest cousin marriage
The concept of loving and hating things for the sake of God is a joke to me, sorry
I think Hazrat Umar (ra) said marry outside of your tribe for a health family we do not think much of this saying and we dont mould our minds towards it as its not in our parents wider financial interest

My English is not very good

Caliph Umar (ra) didnt make it compulsory to marry outside of family. dont be annoying.

STOP CALLING COUSIN MARRIAGE INCEST as IT ISNT. you're the only person here that htings this. EVEN THE LAW (islamic of British or EU or whatever) dont call it INCEST.

WOUAH! a joke? loving and hating for the sake of God? so what do you do? follow desires? passions?

we're not asking you to "mould your mind around incest cousin marriage" we said: cousin marriage is allowed. get over it.

Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary?

Lilly wrote:
dude you sound quite bitter. sounds like your parents are trying to marry you off to your cousin or what?

you've build this whole case against cousin marriage, its quite funny, especially because you have no control over who you will fall in love with, hahaha...someone like..euh...cousin?! who knows? Only Allah does eh?

why are we talking about everyone leaving Islam? thats like everyone going crazy and living the truth for falsehood? you think EVERYONE will do that? especially if its the TRUTH?! and ONLY TRUTH?! i dont think so. so drop it already.

If i can be bothered i might look for some stats about cousin marriage. or you oculd do that. and show how BAAAAAAAADDDD cousin marriage is. instead of opiniating everything. It's getting really annoying, you have no back up for none of your points...

what else? we've established the fact that this sentence you quoted from wiki was an OPINION (just like the rest of you actually). so whether it says advocate or encourage DOESNT MATTER anymore. its just SOMEONE's OPINION.

Cousin marriages are never ever done out of genuine love they are forced upon you by Muslim parents whom are mostly of Pakistani origin

You should never even dream of falling in love with your cousin brother sister it should be out of question? If you can’t control who you fall in love with does that mean you can fall in love with your own brother or sister? Would that be acceptable to you?

Cousin marriage is banned in the US dude why?
Muslims living in the west are living Islam for many reasons

If you think that wiki is lying about Islam encouraging cousin marriage please proof it wrong, if you wish to do so

My English is not very good

Lilly wrote:
Caliph Umar (ra) didnt make it compulsory to marry outside of family. dont be annoying.

STOP CALLING COUSIN MARRIAGE INCEST as IT ISNT. you're the only person here that htings this. EVEN THE LAW (islamic of British or EU or whatever) dont call it INCEST.

WOUAH! a joke? loving and hating for the sake of God? so what do you do? follow desires? passions?

we're not asking you to "mould your mind around incest cousin marriage" we said: cousin marriage is allowed. get over it.

Why was cousin marriage made compulsory and marring outside of family not?
NO I WILL NOT STOP CALLING INCEST INCEST

I do not follow desires and passions
I will not get over it, it should not have been allowed as I have been saying from the start

My English is not very good

as ive ENBOLDEN. its doesnt encourage? it ALLOWS.

as you've seen in the MAIN ARTICLE. some people are pretty HAPPY married to their cousins.

you wanna live in the US under US law..go RIGHT AHEAD, no one is stopping you. Just remember, thats man-made rule. man being that unstable weak and unknowing creature. that..or God's law. God who created humans and EVERYTHING else. i chose God.

"cousin marriage are NEVER done out of genuine love" some evidence please? else just go write "cousin marriage" on a piece of paper, stick it on the wall and get your frustration out.

you dont control who you fall in love with. but i never said you couldnt control who you DONT fall in love with, again, God's law and freaking common sense and even SCIENCE will lead you to NOT fall for your bro/sis.

Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary?

My parents are pakistanis, and they do not say to their children "you have to marry you cousin"

I know someone who is in love with their cousin and they are not even married yet!

I don't think you understood what I meant by encourage so forget I said anything and accept THE FACT THAT Islam/ the Qur'an does NOT tell it's believers to get married to their cousins.

And, PLease, I beg you, stop taking what's written on wikipedea like its the word of God.

Go find me evidence from an Islamic, I repeat Islamic source - NOT asian, pakistani, western influenced, which says the Qur'an says this then I will believe you.

"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi

Lilly wrote:
even SCIENCE will lead you to NOT fall for your bro/sis.

There have been cases where children have been adopted and they become adults fall in love with each other then find out they're siblings! o.O

"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi

ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE wrote:
Lilly wrote:
even SCIENCE will lead you to NOT fall for your bro/sis.

There have been cases where children have been adopted and they become adults fall in love with each other then find out they're siblings! o.O

That's freaky though - hormones are meant to stop that hapenning.

But when people start messing with hormones... (I have read that some common pregnancy prevention drugs work by altering them... but that also can have other consequences.)

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE wrote:
My parents are pakistanis, and they do not say to their children "you have to marry you cousin"

I know someone who is in love with their cousin and they are not even married yet!

I don't think you understood what I meant by encourage so forget I said anything and accept THE FACT THAT Islam/ the Qur'an does NOT tell it's believers to get married to their cousins.

And, PLease, I beg you, stop taking what's written on wikipedea like its the word of God.

Go find me evidence from an Islamic, I repeat Islamic source - NOT asian, pakistani, western influenced, which says the Qur'an says this then I will believe you.

After all that time and now you’re telling me that your parents are from Pakistan
Are you Urdu Punjabi, Sindhi, Pashto speaking?

Do you know a place called Gujrat in Punjab Pakistan? If you do then do you know a place called Shah Dola Da Mazar in Gujrat city? If you do then tell me why are there so many microscopic children called Shah Dola De Chowe The rat children of Shah Dola

Islam does tell its followers to marry there cousins

My English is not very good

ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE wrote:
Lilly wrote:
even SCIENCE will lead you to NOT fall for your bro/sis.

There have been cases where children have been adopted and they become adults fall in love with each other then find out they're siblings! o.O

Man thats sooooo sick

Sounds a bit like the Pakistani movie Mujhe Chand Chahiye

My English is not very good

stopincest wrote:
ThE pOwEr Of SiLeNcE wrote:
Lilly wrote:
even SCIENCE will lead you to NOT fall for your bro/sis.

There have been cases where children have been adopted and they become adults fall in love with each other then find out they're siblings! o.O

Man thats sooooo sick

PofS!! dont encourage him/her!!

and Stop, you said

Islam does tell its followers to marry there cousins

WHERE? stop opiniating Islam, thats not how it works. Islam is reknowned to be a religion based on hard facts and universal principles, laws. not interpretation of the layman. STOP giving Islam a bad Image.

i know you dont wanna be a Muslim, but you know what? you dont have to.

Also, you've even NAMED yourself "stopincest" you sound like a person with strong beliefs and ideas. i would have liked to know your opinion on OTHER topics, not just cousin marriage, coz im getting tired of this, what about you take part in the rest of the forum if you intend to stay?

right now, you're just like any extremist passerby, who will be gone in a few days leaving next to no impact except maybe a weird cyber after taste in the back of the throat.

be human. be interesting.

Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary?

Pages