Forced Marriage vs Gay Daughter

"I took off my hijab, and I threw it on the floor and my brother got really mad. It's the worst thing I could have done to offend my religion, aside from burn or tear the Koran.

"My mother, she kind of stood still, and started listening, and it was very liberating that she finally wanted to hear what I had to say.

"I told her about my sexuality and I said 'that's right, I do meet girls, and I love it' and I told her that she had been hurting me really badly, and I will never forgive her."

Now 20, Reviva - not her real name - recounts the day she finally came out to her family, her pupils flash and the flat, matter-of-fact delivery of her story-telling becomes briefly animated.

This, you realise, is the pivotal moment in a disturbing journey of self-discovery which encompasses family estrangement, exorcism, and attempted suicide.

Like hundreds of young men and women in Britain, Reviva was forced into marriage in spite of her sexual orientation, and still carries deep psychological scars from years of torment at the hands of her parents.

Saw that on the BBC website earlier.

Don't really know what to make of it.

The thing with statistics though, it is about what people are told - I know of someone who told the authorities that he was being forced into a marriage in order to get fast trcked with social housing (he had been kicked out after one too many altercations).

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

Get married. Blum 3

Good question, who's in the right? and who's in the wrong?

There doesn't have to be an "in the right".

I would also presume that what the article covers is the final bit in probably a long process where things happened, thoughts became strong, relationships broke down. (as a bad analogy, a similar article on a bank robbery gone wrong would be focussing on how the "poor guys" were forced to shoot their way out...)

Surely, there was intervention, parenting or other stuff that could have been done earlier?

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

There comes a point where a loving parent must for everybody's sake stop educating their child without solicitation and accept the decisions of their now adult offspring, regardless of whether they approve or had intended such an outcome.

  • It can never be satisfied, the mind, never. -- Wallace Stevens

Ocean wrote:
Thank you for volunteering to be throttled.

Surely, there was intervention, parenting or other stuff that could have been done earlier?

So you're saying that kids should be taught from a young age to be heterosexual and nothing else?

No, at a specific point, kids are their own people. but before then, there is other stuff. Was she taught Islam from a point other than culture and ritual?

(this will sound very ... judgemental - and it is, but "London Muslim" had an article where someone had mentioned how her father would have liked her to marry a Muslim, and he had quipped, maybe he should have first considered bringing her up as one...)

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

I had no idea that we get Muslim girls becoming lesbians, until a friend of mine told me his cousin is a lesbian and he sees her making out with other girls, so he sleeps with her instead to get her away from that...TALKED ABOUT MESSED UP FAMILY!

Anyway, with regards to this article I'm actualy not suprised she used her hijab to show her dislike for the religion or for the restrictions of not becoming a lesbian.

I think You is right, I'm sure there must be a lot more going on than whats been written on the BBC. But it looks like cultural influence has attracted her attention more than Islam.

I also think the way the parents have gone about it is wrong. If you are a followerer of the Sunnah you would know that the Prophet never hit anyone in his life, so how can these people do that? That is no way to discipline a child, whether young or not. Its plain wrong. I think if they tackled it differently then things might have turned out differently with this girl. And I also dont think its out of fear of being questioned on the day of judgement, I think it was fear of society, culture and what their daughter was turning into (a lesbian).

I can understand them using this method, because its scary to see your own child taking a wrong turn in life. But it also depends on their upbringing and the society they are opened to.

I dont know, personaly I think if they tackled it different it would have been a different situation (possibily). But this girl seems to be influenced by this western culture of it being acceptable to be a bisexual.
Also, forced marriage is haram in Islam, so even if she did 'get married by force' it would not be accepted in Allahs' eyes.

Your own soul is nourished when you are kind; it is destroyed when you are cruel.

Being gay or bisexual is not something thats limited to western society. You'll find homosexuals all over the world, the west is just more obvious about it and accepts that it happens. Rather than ignoring them.

But forcing her to marry some other guy is stupid. Not only are you ruining her life but then you're ruining that guys as well. Not to mention that everyone knows force marriage is HAAAAAAAARAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAM! Im sure there was other things going on as well before it got to this situation.

I accept its a tough situation for any parent to face but you have to try and do the right thing. Forcing her to marry a guy is defo not the answer and celebacy is not ideal either. If they could do that then fine but i dont think most people could. I dont really think you could do anything to 'turn' them. You're only real option is to leave them be. Maybe Allah (swt) will bring them back maybe he wont.

Would it really be soo overly wrong to allow them to be gay and perhaps keep it in a gay marriage, and ultimately happy than to ruin two peoples lives by forcing her to marry some guy and making the rest of her life a living nightmare?? The Prophet (pbuh) always took the lesser of the evils. Is that not what we could do here?

Back in BLACK

Seraphim wrote:
Being gay or bisexual is not something thats limited to western society. You'll find homosexuals all over the world, the west is just more obvious about it and accepts that it happens. Rather than ignoring them.

But forcing her to marry some other guy is stupid. Not only are you ruining her life but then you're ruining that guys as well. Not to mention that everyone knows force marriage is HAAAAAAAARAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAM! Im sure there was other things going on as well before it got to this situation.

I accept its a tough situation for any parent to face but you have to try and do the right thing. Forcing her to marry a guy is defo not the answer and celebacy is not ideal either. If they could do that then fine but i dont think most people could. I dont really think you could do anything to 'turn' them. You're only real option is to leave them be. Maybe Allah (swt) will bring them back maybe he wont.

Would it really be soo overly wrong to allow them to be gay and perhaps keep it in a gay marriage, and ultimately happy than to ruin two peoples lives by forcing her to marry some guy and making the rest of her life a living nightmare?? The Prophet (pbuh) always took the lesser of the evils. Is that not what we could do here?

By getting her into a gay marriage I think doesnt that mean the parents will also be doing sin? Or if not sin, then something wrong against their daughter?
It's not just about being happy and ruining peoples lives, its about right and wrong and morals and ethics.

I personally dont think a gay marriage would be helpful in this situation in light of Deen, but obviously maybe for the girl it would. But then why would she want to get into a marriage at a young age if she has no respect for the Shariah? If she can kiss a girl at the age of 12, I doubt she will get into marriage with a girl (unless shes inlove or something,God knows) because she cant keep her as a girlfriend.

And plus, two wrongs DONT make a right! You cannot do something wrong to achieve something right...

Your own soul is nourished when you are kind; it is destroyed when you are cruel.

Bijou wrote:
I had no idea that we get Muslim girls becoming lesbians, until a friend of mine told me his cousin is a lesbian and he sees her making out with other girls, so he sleeps with her instead to get her away from that...TALKED ABOUT MESSED UP FAMILY!

o.O

 

Bijou wrote:
Seraphim wrote:
Being gay or bisexual is not something thats limited to western society. You'll find homosexuals all over the world, the west is just more obvious about it and accepts that it happens. Rather than ignoring them.

But forcing her to marry some other guy is stupid. Not only are you ruining her life but then you're ruining that guys as well. Not to mention that everyone knows force marriage is HAAAAAAAARAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAM! Im sure there was other things going on as well before it got to this situation.

I accept its a tough situation for any parent to face but you have to try and do the right thing. Forcing her to marry a guy is defo not the answer and celebacy is not ideal either. If they could do that then fine but i dont think most people could. I dont really think you could do anything to 'turn' them. You're only real option is to leave them be. Maybe Allah (swt) will bring them back maybe he wont.

Would it really be soo overly wrong to allow them to be gay and perhaps keep it in a gay marriage, and ultimately happy than to ruin two peoples lives by forcing her to marry some guy and making the rest of her life a living nightmare?? The Prophet (pbuh) always took the lesser of the evils. Is that not what we could do here?

By getting her into a gay marriage I think doesnt that mean the parents will also be doing sin? Or if not sin, then something wrong against their daughter?
It's not just about being happy and ruining peoples lives, its about right and wrong and morals and ethics.

I personally dont think a gay marriage would be helpful in this situation in light of Deen, but obviously maybe for the girl it would. But then why would she want to get into a marriage at a young age if she has no respect for the Shariah? If she can kiss a girl at the age of 12, I doubt she will get into marriage with a girl (unless shes inlove or something,God knows) because she cant keep her as a girlfriend.

And plus, two wrongs DONT make a right! You cannot do something wrong to achieve something right...

I think you're being a bit naive.

Things are rarely that black and white. There are degrees of right and wrong. And sometimes there isnt a perfect answer to set things right. In which case the best option is to choose the lesser of the two evils. And I think this is one of those cases.

Obv im not saying get her married now at the age of 12. But imo it doesnt necessarily mean her parents are committing a sin (technically this is up to God to decide not you and me). Bcoz if you think abot it, whats the alternative? Celebacy or marry her off to a guy. Both of which result in a greater evil.

Im not saying i agree with homosexuality or that we should accept it or watever. I just dont see how screwing over two people could ever be right.
Atlest when shes older and understands its wrong but is still gay and ends up in a gay marriage its confined within those two people.

If you've got a better solution i'd like to hear it.

Back in BLACK

s.b.f wrote:
Bijou wrote:
I had no idea that we get Muslim girls becoming lesbians, until a friend of mine told me his cousin is a lesbian and he sees her making out with other girls, so he sleeps with her instead to get her away from that...TALKED ABOUT MESSED UP FAMILY!

o.O

I know.

Back in BLACK

Seraphim wrote:
s.b.f wrote:
Bijou wrote:
I had no idea that we get Muslim girls becoming lesbians, until a friend of mine told me his cousin is a lesbian and he sees her making out with other girls, so he sleeps with her instead to get her away from that...TALKED ABOUT MESSED UP FAMILY!

o.O

I know.

You do?

 

s.b.f wrote:
Seraphim wrote:
s.b.f wrote:
Bijou wrote:
I had no idea that we get Muslim girls becoming lesbians, until a friend of mine told me his cousin is a lesbian and he sees her making out with other girls, so he sleeps with her instead to get her away from that...TALKED ABOUT MESSED UP FAMILY!

o.O

I know.

You do?

I meant 'I know... what you're thinking...'

Back in BLACK

Seraphim wrote:
s.b.f wrote:
Seraphim wrote:
s.b.f wrote:
Bijou wrote:
I had no idea that we get Muslim girls becoming lesbians, until a friend of mine told me his cousin is a lesbian and he sees her making out with other girls, so he sleeps with her instead to get her away from that...TALKED ABOUT MESSED UP FAMILY!

o.O

I know.

You do?

I meant 'I know... what you're thinking...'

Oh really....

So now you're a psychic....hmmm

 

I think you're being a bit naive.

Things are rarely that black and white. There are degrees of right and wrong. And sometimes there isnt a perfect answer to set things right. In which case the best option is to choose the lesser of the two evils. And I think this is one of those cases.

Obv im not saying get her married now at the age of 12. But imo it doesnt necessarily mean her parents are committing a sin (technically this is up to God to decide not you and me). Bcoz if you think abot it, whats the alternative? Celebacy or marry her off to a guy. Both of which result in a greater evil.

Im not saying i agree with homosexuality or that we should accept it or watever. I just dont see how screwing over two people could ever be right.
Atlest when shes older and understands its wrong but is still gay and ends up in a gay marriage its confined within those two people.

If you've got a better solution i'd like to hear it.

Naive? Hmmm ok, if you say so.

I'm not giving alternatives now, or when I first responded to this post. And if you read my earlier post I mentioned there must be other things going on before this also (hence its not black and white).

And in regards to whether the parents are committing a sin if they help out in doing a sin is defo up to Allah,but that does not mean we humans cant have a say in it what we think. And I'm not saying they're committing a sin if they do assist in her gay marriage, but its something to find out.

I didn't say screwing the lives of two people is right either, I just don't think a gay marriage is the solution to it.

Your own soul is nourished when you are kind; it is destroyed when you are cruel.

s.b.f wrote:
Seraphim wrote:
s.b.f wrote:
Seraphim wrote:
s.b.f wrote:
Bijou wrote:
I had no idea that we get Muslim girls becoming lesbians, until a friend of mine told me his cousin is a lesbian and he sees her making out with other girls, so he sleeps with her instead to get her away from that...TALKED ABOUT MESSED UP FAMILY!

o.O

I know.

You do?

I meant 'I know... what you're thinking...'

Oh really....

So now you're a psychic....hmmm

no... i dont have to be psychic. You're just predictable.

Back in BLACK

Just agree to disagree.

Your own soul is nourished when you are kind; it is destroyed when you are cruel.

s.b.f wrote:
Bijou wrote:
I had no idea that we get Muslim girls becoming lesbians, until a friend of mine told me his cousin is a lesbian and he sees her making out with other girls, so he sleeps with her instead to get her away from that...TALKED ABOUT MESSED UP FAMILY!

o.O

Yeah I was stunned when I found out!

Your own soul is nourished when you are kind; it is destroyed when you are cruel.

Bijou wrote:
Just agree to disagree.

Thats not a solution.

Back in BLACK

Seraphim wrote:
Bijou wrote:
Just agree to disagree.

Thats not a solution.

Well what else could I say? You say gay marriage, I say no...

Your own soul is nourished when you are kind; it is destroyed when you are cruel.

Bijou wrote:
Seraphim wrote:
Bijou wrote:
Just agree to disagree.

Thats not a solution.

Well what else could I say? You say gay marriage, I say no...

no is not a solution either. How is saying no gonna help anyone?

Its easy to condemn but try offering a solution.

Im sounding really confrontational in these posts and I dont mean to be, its just everyones rushing to say gays = haraaaamm wat the parents did was haraaaam but then cant offer an alternative solution.

Back in BLACK

I would agree with Bijou. Gay marriage is so wrong. Just as wrong as getting the gay person married to someone else and ruining both lives.

Seraphim wrote:
Bijou wrote:
Seraphim wrote:
Bijou wrote:
Just agree to disagree.

Thats not a solution.

Well what else could I say? You say gay marriage, I say no...

no is not a solution either. How is saying no gonna help anyone?

Its easy to condemn but try offering a solution.

Im sounding really confrontational in these posts and I dont mean to be, its just everyones rushing to say gays = haraaaamm wat the parents did was haraaaam but then cant offer an alternative solution.

I am saying NO to YOUR solution ! Not the fact that a solution should not be given! I do not agree with your solution because like you mentioned in your first post gay= haram ...and now your saying everyone's rushing into saying that?!

First of all, the whole situation (from what we are aware of) should have been handled differently. The parents should sit down and explain to the girl from right and wrong.
Advise her what to do, take her counselling, ask her questions try to understand her point of view in this situation and society and whatever else that needs to be understood from a young girls prospective.

This is just my opinion, I have no children so obviously I wouldn't know how to handle a situation if that happened in real life, but I've just given an example of how I might go about it. and you are very critical calling me naive :twisted: !

Your own soul is nourished when you are kind; it is destroyed when you are cruel.

MuslimBro wrote:
I would agree with Bijou. Gay marriage is so wrong. Just as wrong as getting the gay person married to someone else and ruining both lives.

Ofcourse you would agree with her :twisted: :badgrin:

Back in BLACK

Bijou wrote:
Seraphim wrote:
Bijou wrote:
Seraphim wrote:
Bijou wrote:
Just agree to disagree.

Thats not a solution.

Well what else could I say? You say gay marriage, I say no...

no is not a solution either. How is saying no gonna help anyone?

Its easy to condemn but try offering a solution.

Im sounding really confrontational in these posts and I dont mean to be, its just everyones rushing to say gays = haraaaamm wat the parents did was haraaaam but then cant offer an alternative solution.

I am saying NO to YOUR solution ! Not the fact that a solution should not be given! I do not agree with your solution because like you mentioned in your first post gay= haram ...and now your saying everyone's rushing into saying that?!

First of all, the whole situation (from what we are aware of) should have been handled differently. The parents should sit down and explain to the girl from right and wrong.
Advise her what to do, take her counselling, ask her questions try to understand her point of view in this situation and society and whatever else that needs to be understood from a young girls prospective.

This is just my opinion, I have no children so obviously I wouldn't know how to handle a situation if that happened in real life, but I've just given an example of how I might go about it. and you are very critical calling me naive :twisted: !

So what you're saying is, you dont have an answer. You cant offer a solution or an alternative to how they should have handled it. Shes a teenager, telling her not to do something isnt gonna work.

And im pretty sure a questionable solution is better than no solution. But thank you for playing.

Back in BLACK

Well Mr Seraphim I would rather have no solution than have a solution like yours!

And she is now 20. An adult capable of coming up with her own solutions and asking for help if required.

Your own soul is nourished when you are kind; it is destroyed when you are cruel.

Seraphim wrote:
You're just predictable.

Great.

Next time you hassle me for a story....

 

s.b.f wrote:
Seraphim wrote:
You're just predictable.

Great.

Next time you hassle me for a story....

I NEVER HASSLE YOU FOR A STORY!!! :shock:

Thats you!

Bijou wrote:
Well Mr Seraphim I would rather have no solution than have a solution like yours!

And she is now 20. An adult capable of coming up with her own solutions and asking for help if required.

I find your lack of faith disturbing... :/

Sephy wrote:
s.b.f wrote:
Seraphim wrote:
You're just predictable.

Great.

Next time you hassle me for a story....

I NEVER HASSLE YOU FOR A STORY!!! :shock:

Thats you!

I just knew you were going to say that.

Predictable Seraph.

 

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