‘Equal but different.’

Discuss how adequately this sums up the relationship between males and females in Islam.

Many people believe that because of the similarities between men and women, they should be, and are, completely equal and should be treated so. Other people however believe that because of the natural physical and mental differences, they can never be fully equal and that should be respected. Other people however, maintain that equality is an abstract relative concept and so full equality can never be achieved because we’ll never agree on what constitutes true equality.

In some senses, many Muslims agree that men and women are equal. For instance in the sense that in the Quran it maintains that all souls will be judged according to its own deeds. Every human being, regardless, will have to take responsibility on the Day of Judgement. In others however, they strongly disagree. For instance, men and women are given clearly different guidelines, even where the principles are the same; both men and women have to dress modestly, but only women are obliged to wear hijabs, it is not compulsory for men to cover their hair.

Allah states in the Quran ”Does man think that he will be left neglected without being punished or rewarded for the obligatory duties enjoined by his Lord (Allah) on him? Was he not a mixed male and female discharge of semen pouring forth? Then he became a clot; then (Allah) shaped and fashioned (him) in due proportion, and made him into two sexes, male and female. Is He not able to raise to life those who are dead?” In this verse, Allah illustrates that in terms of humanity, men and women are not that different, they are created from a single source. The prophet Muhammad once said “Verily, women are the twin halves of men.” Which also illustrates the equality there is in Islam.

This is further shown in the similarities between religious obligation for men and for women. For instance, as aforementioned, both men and women have to dress modestly. Men and women have also similar social obligations and responsibilities to reform and correct the society to the best of their capability. Men and women shoulder the responsibility of enjoining good and forbidding evil equally. The five pillars also apply to both as Allah says in the Quran: “The believers, men and women, are helpers, supporters, friends and protectors of one another, they enjoin all that is good, and forbid all that is evil, they offer their prayers perfectly, and give Zakah (Obligatory Charity) and obey Allah and His Messenger. Allah will bestow Mercy on them. Surely Allah is All-Mighty, All-Wise”

Many people believe however, that the standing of woman in prayers behind men indicates she is inferior to him. However, Muslims could argue that woman is exempt from attending congregation prayers which are obligatory on men but even if they do attend, this is not symbolic as an act but more a regulation of discipline in prayers and not a classification of importance. The order of lines, they could say, is set such that every Muslim is helped to concentrate on his/her own meditation. Also, being organised in this way is useful to avoid embarrassment and distraction, fulfil the true purposes of the prayers and maintain harmony and order among worshippers.

Many people, Muslims included, believe that it is an injustice to a woman that right after she is the ‘property’ of her male family members, she becomes that of her husbands. However it could be argued that this is just a negative perception of a good thing. It could be argued that it’s not that she’s been imprisoned so much as it is that she has a right to security and provision by her father and her brother. As a wife she is entitled to demand a dowry from her prospective husband, she is entitled to complete provision and total maintenance by her husband. If she wishes to work that is her choice; but it is her privilege to be provided for.

As is very rarely addressed, men could argue that in certain cases, THEY are treated unfairly. For instance, sometimes women are exempt from prayers and fasting, they are always exempt from congregational prayers and she is exempt from all financial liabilities. Also, as a mother, she enjoys more recognition in the sight of God. However, this is levelled out possibly by the fact that the testimony of a woman is worth but half of a man’s and she has additional responsibilities and burdens such as childbirth.

In conclusion, I believe that there is a difference between equal and identical. The status of women, as shown in history, hadith and the Quran, is high and realistically suitable to her nature. Usually it is found that if she is deprived of one thing, she is compensated for it with more things in other aspects. As mentioned in the Quran: “And women shall have rights similar to the rights against them, according to what is equitable; but man have a degree (of advantage as in some cases of inheritance) over them” (2:228) I feel this verse clearly sums up the relationship between men and women in Islam. It highlights God’s abundance and omniscience in distributing duties, obligations and rewards perfectly amongst the “twain scattered (like seeds) countless men and women” (4:1)

Comments

Women & Men are equal and different, because they each have a need to be treated according to their gender. It does not mean one has more rights than others. Can a man get months off work due to pregnancy?

The verse in Islam meant to advice Muslims to treat each other on equal proportions, but enjoy the same equality. However, denying rights to either of them which they are entitled such as public services and work is not in Quran.

Its an answer to an A level question - a good answer too.

But the way the studies work is more than one side of teh argument has to be looked at.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

You wrote:
a good answer too.

Thanks Biggrin

#Before you look at the thorns of the rose , look at it's beauty. Before you complain about the heat of the sun , enjoy it's light. Before you complain about the blackness of the night, think of it's peace and quiet... #

I can probably be slightly nit picky like a teacher or something too, but this isf ar and beyond the quality I can write at.

When you property, the quote marks do seem to have a lot of subtext. I assume you mean other people say its like property etc etc. and that it is not the case.

(second one was - its not an "entitled to demand a dowry" but an actual legal/moral/religious entitlement to a dowry.)

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

You wrote:
I can probably be slightly nit picky like a teacher or something too, but this isf ar and beyond the quality I can write at.

When you property, the quote marks do seem to have a lot of subtext. I assume you mean other people say its like property etc etc. and that it is not the case.

(second one was - its not an "entitled to demand a dowry" but an actual legal/moral/religious entitlement to a dowry.)

What's your point about the property thing? :S

Oh okay so they're entitled to dowry, not entitled to demand it? Thank yaa :}

#Before you look at the thorns of the rose , look at it's beauty. Before you complain about the heat of the sun , enjoy it's light. Before you complain about the blackness of the night, think of it's peace and quiet... #

They aren't property, which I think you allude by "including Muslims", but it does not seem too clear. Unless I am misunderstanding that?

("feel/treated like property" on the other hand may be a valid criticism over how some people do things.)

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

You wrote:
They aren't property, which I think you allude by "including Muslims", but it does not seem too clear. Unless I am misunderstanding that?

i know they aren't :S

That's the point; that that's an inaccurate way of looking at it.

#Before you look at the thorns of the rose , look at it's beauty. Before you complain about the heat of the sun , enjoy it's light. Before you complain about the blackness of the night, think of it's peace and quiet... #

ok, I have no point. Not the first time.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

You wrote:
ok, I have no point. Not the first time.

haha no, you could be right.

Or i just worded things terribly, i apologise

#Before you look at the thorns of the rose , look at it's beauty. Before you complain about the heat of the sun , enjoy it's light. Before you complain about the blackness of the night, think of it's peace and quiet... #

Cosa_Nostra wrote:
Women & Men are equal and different, because they each have a need to be treated according to their gender. It does not mean one has more rights than others. Can a man get months off work due to pregnancy?

erm
men DONT GET PREGNANT! thats why!

how is that unfair??????

oooh a man cant give birth, the poor things

women have always been treated as inferior to men
it isn't an Islamic thing
its just a general thing

its very sad
I look forward to the day where I'm not looked down on simply for being a woman

The modern muslimah is a terribly confused creature. They really make me GROWLLLLLL..........

Never have I dealt with anything more difficult than my own soul, which sometimes helps me and sometimes opposes me.
-Imam Al-Ghazali

A good way to fix the growling problem is to focus on yourself and not worry about the muslimahs. Let them focus on themselves.

Seriously, it will be better for your own temperament.

Besides, I would suggest that Muslimahs are in general in a far better state than Muslim guys.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

You wrote:
A good way to fix the growling problem is to focus on yourself and not worry about the muslimahs. Let them focus on themselves.

Seriously, it will be better for your own temperament.

Besides, I would suggest that Muslimahs are in general in a far better state than Muslim guys.

I would if they stopped trampling on men every opportunity they get. Besides they make up our community and their immorality affects me too.

Where I come from, the muslimah's don't just take the cake, they take the whole bakery.

Never have I dealt with anything more difficult than my own soul, which sometimes helps me and sometimes opposes me.
-Imam Al-Ghazali

Ocean wrote:
zdc wrote:
The modern muslimah is a terribly confused creature. They really make me GROWLLLLLL..........

You're such an idiot!

You're such a woman. (That's an insult.) :badgrin:

Never have I dealt with anything more difficult than my own soul, which sometimes helps me and sometimes opposes me.
-Imam Al-Ghazali

zdc wrote:
I would if they stopped trampling on men every opportunity they get. Besides they make up our community and their immorality affects me too.

Where I come from, the muslimah's don't just take the cake, they take the whole bakery.

OK, I will try a different approach here - some questions.

Where do you come from? Do you have any sisters? If you do, if they were given the same treatment as you, would you be offended?

(I just want to know what you consider "taking the bakery".)

zdc wrote:
Besides they make up our community and their immorality affects me too.

Dude, lower your (real and metaphorical) gaze and you should be fine!

Instead of focussing and blaming all sins on one section of society, lets admit that people are imperfect and then ask Allah (swt) to help us and then try to be better in the bits we can control.

It seems like a happier more realistic approach to change.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

zdc wrote:

I would if they stopped trampling on men every opportunity they get. Besides they make up our community and their immorality affects me too.


You're talking like as if men are innocent. Which they are NOT.
zdc wrote:

You're such a woman. (That's an insult.)

LOL lame!

"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi

wouah zdc! maybe you should try the "we come in peaces" ??

slow down, breathe deeply, we dont all hate you.

Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary?

1R4M wrote:
Cosa_Nostra wrote:
Women & Men are equal and different, because they each have a need to be treated according to their gender. It does not mean one has more rights than others. Can a man get months off work due to pregnancy?

erm
men DONT GET PREGNANT! thats why!

how is that unfair??????

oooh a man cant give birth, the poor things

women have always been treated as inferior to men
it isn't an Islamic thing
its just a general thing

its very sad
I look forward to the day where I'm not looked down on simply for being a woman

but are you looked down upon for being a woman?

Back in BLACK

Ocean wrote:
zdc wrote:
Ocean wrote:
zdc wrote:
The modern muslimah is a terribly confused creature. They really make me GROWLLLLLL..........

You're such an idiot!

You're such a woman. (That's an insult.) :badgrin:

I am a woman actually and I I don't see it as an insulkt, not sure why you do.

You drop your macho- all men are saints and therefore they must dictate a woman's life for them- Attidue!

It still doesn't make you a less of an idiot. I know that hurts, which is why I repeated it.

People, ABOVE is a prime example which is why I don't value marriage much or men for that matter.

Pretty obvious you're a woman, does'nt take a genius to see that.

No all men are not saints, but most are. If women were so capable of thinking straight they would not have been made second in command of the household by allah swt.

Hurt me? Yeah right take your best shot, you have'nt even grazed me lady. Women like you are nothing more to me but something inbetween a sick joke and a nasty rash on the butt. Irritating yes, but can't do much damage.

And People, The ABOVE, my not so dear lady is the exact reason why I don't value marriage or wives for that matter.

Never have I dealt with anything more difficult than my own soul, which sometimes helps me and sometimes opposes me.
-Imam Al-Ghazali

You wrote:
zdc wrote:
I would if they stopped trampling on men every opportunity they get. Besides they make up our community and their immorality affects me too.

Where I come from, the muslimah's don't just take the cake, they take the whole bakery.

OK, I will try a different approach here - some questions.

Where do you come from? Do you have any sisters? If you do, if they were given the same treatment as you, would you be offended?

(I just want to know what you consider "taking the bakery".)

zdc wrote:
Besides they make up our community and their immorality affects me too.

Dude, lower your (real and metaphorical) gaze and you should be fine!

Instead of focussing and blaming all sins on one section of society, lets admit that people are imperfect and then ask Allah (swt) to help us and then try to be better in the bits we can control.

It seems like a happier more realistic approach to change.

I hate answering questions.
I am somewhere on the planet they call earth, there are some really mean, scarry creatures out here, they call them WIVES!!
Yes I have sisters, fortunately they have been moulded into being obedient creatures from a young age, unlike the uncultured, ill mannered, beasts I come into contact with on a daily basis.
I am not sure what you mean by "if they were given the same treatment as you, would you be offended?"

Next Question.

Aah, the taking the bakery line, was just to get your imagination running.

Quote:
Dude, lower your (real and metaphorical) gaze and you should be fine!.

Typical of women, always expect men to bend over backwards so they can continue with their evil ways.
I try to do that by the way, but still have this burning urge of wanting to lash them a hundred times. I say SHARIAH LAW all da way.

You see it's like this, I have to pass through a shopping mall to go and pray zuhr salaat. I try hard to keep my gaze down, but living in a non muslim country, there are many non muslim women around wearing miniskirts, tight fitting jeans etc. If I look down I see their white legs, if I look up, it's another story. But they are non muslims, I can understand that.

The other day per chance, I happend to pass by a muslim girl, alhum dhullilah, nicely covered with head scarf, but such tight fitting jeans and top it left nothing to the imagination.

Go to any muslim wedding or to a muslim restuarant, I feel like the earth will split open and swallow everyone due to the shamelessness of these women. I know of muslim girls who actually show off their cleavage, high slit dresses, make up, flirting with men in gatherings for what?? who are they trying to impress??
I am sure if you go to their houses they will probably look like they jumped out of the screen of a horror movie. Why can't they beautify themselves at home for their husbands only. In fact a family member once told how a women in niqaab was giving him gestures in the bank. Now need I say more....

Never have I dealt with anything more difficult than my own soul, which sometimes helps me and sometimes opposes me.
-Imam Al-Ghazali

Talking about culture... it is considered to be a guest in someone elses house and then shit on the carpet.

Please remember that when posting and make sure that you atleast hold to the standards you expect of others - be they male or female. If you require them to be of a standard, furst thing is to hold to that standard yourself.

Being around people you do not respect is a sign of you being in the wrong place. Just like you won't expect to find many teetotalers in a pub, maybe you should position yourself in a place where you are around better people?

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

Lilly wrote:
wouah zdc! maybe you should try the "we come in peaces" ??

slow down, breathe deeply, we dont all hate you.

The only peaces left will be that of brains(women's brains, if they have any) pasted all over the walls of the discussion forum.

Thanks for not hating. The greater challenge however is to love. (If it exists)

Never have I dealt with anything more difficult than my own soul, which sometimes helps me and sometimes opposes me.
-Imam Al-Ghazali

I can't help but thinking now that your posts are not serious.

Either that or I feel sorry for your sisters, who you think were built to serve you.

Remember, just like you have a soft spot for your sisters, others also have a similar soft spot for theirs.

Be kind even if you cannot appreciate.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

You wrote:
I can't help but thinking now that your posts are not serious.

Either that or I feel sorry for your sisters, who you think were built to serve you.

Remember, just like you have a soft spot for your sisters, others also have a similar soft spot for theirs.

Be kind even if you cannot appreciate.

You are at liberty to think what ever you want about me or my post.
No need to feel sorry for my sisters, they are the ones with the brains in the right place. You should rather feel sorry for the billions of others who feel men are their doormats.

Regarding having a soft spot for my sisters, I guarantee you if they behaved the way other modern muslimah's behave today, the first persons wrath they would feel is mine.

Never have I dealt with anything more difficult than my own soul, which sometimes helps me and sometimes opposes me.
-Imam Al-Ghazali

I don't think i like zdc anymore...
reading this in regestration might not have been the best idea...
Most girls on here are trying to be good muslimah, hence why we're here. I cant recognize myself in your words zdc...

Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary?

Lilly wrote:
I don't think i like zdc anymore...
reading this in regestration might not have been the best idea...
Most girls on here are trying to be good muslimah, hence why we're here. I cant recognize myself in your words zdc...

Sorry if I have offended you. I am in no way implying that you or any of the sisters on this forum are bad or like the way I have explained. I do sincerely believe that there are a few good muslimah's still left out there, however I cannot say this about the vast majority. This is my opinion based on experience and from the things I have seen or heard.

So apologies once again. If the majority of the muslimah's here feel I should leave the forum, then I will gracefully do just that.

Jazakallah.

Never have I dealt with anything more difficult than my own soul, which sometimes helps me and sometimes opposes me.
-Imam Al-Ghazali

You shouldnt leave until you want to (hopefully you wont want to) just slow down. It feels like you should slow down, you're talking from experience (quite negative experience...) you shouldnt apply it to all of us and make generalizations. (Even though, understsndably, experiencing the same thing over and over again will lead to you thinking that everyone everywhere will be the same). Just remember you're human too, so your judgement will also affected by the points of views you hold.

Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary?

Lilly wrote:
You shouldnt leave until you want to (hopefully you wont want to) just slow down. It feels like you should slow down, you're talking from experience (quite negative experience...) you shouldnt apply it to all of us and make generalizations. (Even though, understsndably, experiencing the same thing over and over again will lead to you thinking that everyone everywhere will be the same). Just remember you're human too, so your judgement will also affected by the points of views you hold.

All of what I have said is obviously my opinion, it does'nt apply to the rest of the world, and probably never will. My experiences have made me green in the face, I hope I can someday let go of all this anger and let people be who/what they are. After all I will not be answerable for their deeds on the day of reckoning.

I am aware of my human weaknesses, I have committed many wrong deeds in my life, but i have tried to become the best possible human being I could, but I am constantly reminded of my weaknesses. Every now and then I am reminded of my evil deeds and how shallow I am, yes people have made a lot of sacrifices for me, I appreciate that and pray to allah that he grants them nothing but jannatul firdaus.

I wish I could go back in time, change the wrongs I have committed and never become a burden on anyone....

Never have I dealt with anything more difficult than my own soul, which sometimes helps me and sometimes opposes me.
-Imam Al-Ghazali

dyu no wat ano it mite sound funny
but a cupl of years bak,, i wer tlkin 2 my teacher hu told me dat a man may get the full 6 month maternity leave if he wishes, and that the mother may swop and get 2 weeks of work.

so yes, actualli men can get months of due to preganacy,, strange but true

Ocean wrote:
^ I'm sorry, I can't make out what I'm reading :S

Maz wrote:
dyu no wat ano it mite sound funny
but a cupl of years bak,, i wer tlkin 2 my teacher hu told me dat a man may get the full 6 month maternity leave if he wishes, and that the mother may swop and get 2 weeks of work.

so yes, actualli men can get months of due to preganacy,, strange but true


"Do you know what? It might sound funny but a couple of years back, i was talking to my teacher who told me that a man may get the full 6 months maternity leave if he wishes, and that the mother may swap and get the 2 weeks off work.

So yes, actually, men can get months off due to pregnancy; strange but true."

"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi

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