Iran to send Aid flotilla to Gaza

You(Get it you! haha i crack my self up) and every other person whos heard about this

Those who danced were thought to be quite insane, by those who couldn't hear the music...

Funzo wrote:
You(Get it you! haha i crack my self up)

i laughed at that BECAUSE it was SO lame Blum 3

"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi

Yep, let's not rock the boat - let's maintain a racist apartheid regime in power that will kill and oppress millions...

Oh - don't forget to send some sticky bandages - they will help protect the Palestinians against the bullets, phosphour chemicals and bombs!

Anonymous1 wrote:

Oh - don't forget to send some sticky bandages - they will help protect the Palestinians against the bullets, phosphour chemicals and bombs!

Fool

"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi

There's a real feeling that Iran's bark - metaphorically speaking, of course . . - is much louder than any potential bite [tooth mark leading to a savage death!] ?

Only Turkiye has the potential to really rock the zionist state, but the fruition of anything on their part isn't looking likely.

Erdogan has to actually start implementing rhetoric soon - cutting ties for one! - otherwise its all a smokescreen on his part, and will leave him looking sillier than Mahmoud, not to mention a huge let-down for the Palestinian cause.

« enter You with diametrically opposed opinion »

Agreed - Turkey can bring about change but the Islamists there are locked in by a secular ideology, constitution, secular military leadership and the constitutional court! Anything they do is scrutinised by the secularists and they are forced to backtrack! They can't even get the hijab ban lifted to let women wear them at universities!

It shows a problem in their methodology - when the institutions and system is loaded against you, you should stop respecting it and figure out a way to throw it out in its entirety, lock stock and two smoking barrels!

ok there are two anonymous peoples.
could you guys not think of better names? it can become confusing you know :/ better still create an account Wink

"How many people find fault in what they're reading and the fault is in their own understanding" Al Mutanabbi

Anonymous88 wrote:
« enter You with diametrically opposed opinion »

Unfortunately I have to let you down here.

More, the leadership of Iran also needs to take care of its people and if the flotilla is just used as an excuse to attack Iran... that does not really help the Gazans.

@anonymous1 - what do you think will be on the flotilla? I think you just like being contrary for no reason or maybe because you feel scorned.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

Ocean wrote:
lol

This reminds me of a wasp which is a bee in disguise

go on...?

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

To try and break the blockade I think is a noble aim. I ujust think its a bad diea for Iran to try it... there are people loooking for a reason to bomb it.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

Anonymous1 wrote:

It shows a problem in their methodology - when the institutions and system is loaded against you, you should stop respecting it and figure out a way to throw it out in its entirety, lock stock and two smoking barrels!

At the end of the day, the Secularists (and in Turkish politics that word means something very different than what British politicians mean) control the army and the govt is in its pocket.
The best they can hope for is gradual change and/or hoping the army lose organisation or leadership.

Don't just do something! Stand there.

Ya'qub wrote:
Anonymous1 wrote:

It shows a problem in their methodology - when the institutions and system is loaded against you, you should stop respecting it and figure out a way to throw it out in its entirety, lock stock and two smoking barrels!

At the end of the day, the Secularists (and in Turkish politics that word means something very different than what British politicians mean) control the army and the govt is in its pocket.
The best they can hope for is gradual change and/or hoping the army lose organisation or leadership.

Gradual change is a fallacy - aside from being haram as the process requires you to implement and enforce kufr whilst you are trying to achieve something good, marginal elements can be changed within limits, go beyond that and you will be reigned in - which is what the AK Party are finding.

They should follow the Sunnah - the Prophet(saw) never entered any political system or took political authority unless it was unconditional for Islam. Thus he did not have their problem of enforcing kufr/zulm. He took over the entire system of Medina with the support of the military leaders - the existing ruler fled to Mecca shocked at how Muhammed(saw) achieved the change...

Anonymous1 wrote:

Gradual change is a fallacy - aside from being haram ....

Yes, that is exactly why the Qur'an was revealed all in one go and people who embraced Islam were expected to fulfill all its obligations at once.

O WAIT!! THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT DIDN'T HAPPEN!!!

Please read up on things before giving out your own judgements as to what is halal or haram.

Don't just do something! Stand there.

An interesting side topic, but I came across something a few months ago which suggested that some of the soviets had a theory that it took approximately 25 years for a community to change its outlook/destiny. It is an interesting concept.

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

Ya'qub wrote:
Anonymous1 wrote:

Gradual change is a fallacy - aside from being haram ....

Yes, that is exactly why the Qur'an was revealed all in one go and people who embraced Islam were expected to fulfill all its obligations at once.

O WAIT!! THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT DIDN'T HAPPEN!!!

Please read up on things before giving out your own judgements as to what is halal or haram.

LOL What a load of nonsense!

Most revelations came in one go - eg the Torah to Musa. Quran came over 22 years and the reason is given in the Quranic verses and is specific only to the time of revelation - all obligations and prohibitions that were revealed were implemented straight away and were not gradually eliminated - give one example of where Allah ordered an obligation or prohibition and Muslims did it gradually?
Islam does not allow Muslims subsequent to completion of revelation to gradually follow Islam - otherwise you are effectively arguing we can drink but should not be drunk whilst praying and when we're ready we can then reduce that! What a joke!

If you do zina you are sinful, if you miss an obligatory prayer you are sinful, if you drink alcohol you are sinful - no gradual excuses are entertained by any jurist! All obligations must be done and all prohibitions must be refrained from - recommendations, disrecommendations and permissibility is under the individuals discretion.

Iranian charity accuses Egypt of blocking Gaza aid ship

Iran's Red Crescent says it has put off an aid shipment it was going to send to Gaza after being told it would be prevented from using the Suez Canal.

A Canal official denied that permission had been refused.

Read more @

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

Egypt did not refuse permission but US warships amounting to an armada are monitoring every step of the journey and have deployed in frightening numbers near the Suez and off Lebanon. The line blaming Egypt is to pressure them to be like Erdogan and show Iran some love.

Any links about the deployments? Are they new or has it always been that way?

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'" - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister. 13 May 2015.

Debka is all about it but for credibility we could use another source. If I sounded confident it's because I believe I have read confirmation but I don't know.

Anonymous1 wrote:

Gradual chan all obligations and prohibitions that were revealed were implemented straight away and were not gradually eliminated - give one example of where Allah ordered an obligation or prohibition and Muslims did it gradually?

I'm not going to find a copy and paste website or anything for you, I doubt that's what you want. i'll also say that I have been a 'slack' Muslim (to say the least) for a while, especially in terms of gaining knowledge.

But I have sat with proper scholars, attended classes at Abu Noor in Syria, in English, as well as many talks in London mosques of all 'persuasions' or 'types' (cultural, genuinely-funded and suspiciously-funded masajid).

Without links/sources, I am confident in the honesty and sincerity of all the speakers who have talked about instances where obligations were bought in gradually... One obvious one is that Muslims were required to pray 3 times at the beginning, and this changed.

And I admit when it changed, it became obligatory STRAIT AWAY. A missed Salah on the 1st day that 5 became fardh would presumably be sinful from the very beginning.

But that doesn't take away from the fact that the early Muslims were obliged to pray at 3 points in the day, and that compulsory obligation was raised to something more, something longer, later. Once Islam was more secure in the hearts of it's followers?

Another example I can think of off the top of my head (please correct me if I'm wrong) is that there were a group of bedouins who, after converting to Islam, asked the Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wa Sallam (Peace and Blessings be upon him) how they could make Islam easier for themselves, because it was 'too much to take on all at once' (something along those lines).

This story would not have been relaid to us if it didn't have some significance.... but I understand the problem with overplaying one story

Anonymous1 wrote:
Islam does not allow Muslims subsequent to completion of revelation to gradually follow Islam - otherwise you are effectively arguing we can drink but should not be drunk whilst praying and when we're ready we can then reduce that! What a joke!

That is a joke. Because that is not what any serious, genuine Muslim is saying. and if they are we can ignore them without regretting any wasted time.

Anonymous1 wrote:
If you do zina you are sinful, if you miss an obligatory prayer you are sinful, if you drink alcohol you are sinful - no gradual excuses are entertained by any jurist! All obligations must be done and all prohibitions must be refrained from

This is all well and good. No disagreements from any serious Muslim. But most jurists judge rules in absolute, and individual cases with more leniancy (stories of when Umar (ra) was Caliph show this, SURELY??)

Anonymous1 wrote:
recommendations, disrecommendations and permissibility is under the individuals discretion.

Not sure what you mean by this... is this to do with an individual's relationship with Allah (swt), how he/she feels she can ask for forgiveness for sins... or something else?

Salaams

Don't just do something! Stand there.